Edition 30 - Large Carbon deposits on Injectors

[AnSGTI]

Another Edition 30 owner recently replied to one of my threads on another forum saying he was also having the same cold start problem as me, but that he was also getting a whine from the CAM belt - this was diagnosed as the CAM tensioner. He's had the CAM belt and tensioner replaced and apprently this cured his cold start problem. When I first felt the judder I get on idle my gut instinct was the timing feels like it's out.

As the high pressure fuel pump is driven by the CAM - if my timing was out would this fit with the porblems I have with cold starts? Is it easy to check the timing (Marks on CAM) without having to remove to much from the engine bay?

[AnSGTI]

Well I've tried numerous forums to no avail - I started the car yesterday and it was the worst it's ever been. It turned over but spluttered at 400rpms for a second or two then jumped straight upto 1100prm.

I've dumped it back at the stealers who are trying to help me but I just know they won't find the problem - I think they're going to try a compression check after checking the fuel pressure and checking the injectors.

I have found another person who recently bought an Edition 30 who has exactly the same cold start problem I have, he is now in the process of returning the car to the stealers he got it from due to a string of other issues as well as the cold start stutter - I really hope I don't have to go down this route.

http://www.golfgtiforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=159660.0

[AnSGTI]

Well small update from the stealers - VW technical have been in touch and want some measuring block data, namely block 032 I believe.

They think they can pinpoint an injector problem by measuring this block - can anyone explain to me if this is true please?

[Mako V12V]

It turned over but spluttered at 400rpms for a second or two then jumped straight upto 1100prm.

Mine does this too. Been like this for a while but i'm not particularly worried as mine is still covered under warranty - May 08 car with 19k miles.
When I had the service done in May this year the dealer advised a minor fault that needs rectifying under warranty - both intercooler pipes leaking - recommend seals.

Could this have anything to do with the cold start problem?

This i'll get them to fix the above and look at the cold start issue before winter.

[AnSGTI]

Thanks for your reply - I have no idea to be honest, to me that would be a boost leak I'd have thought so depending on how big your leak is I guess you should just be down on power. Can you hear anything as your driving?

I hadn't even considered a boost leak but don't see how it would cause a problem with Cold Starts

[Mako V12V]

No change in performance. Think it's a 'weep' not a leak but now i have two minor issues i'll get them sorted soon hopefully.

[AnSGTI]

You may find your problem is your PCV valve, mine has been checked but yours may have failed and so I'm told causes cold start problems.

If you get anywhere with it though, please let me know

[Teutonic_Tamer]

Thanks for the replies guys.

No I was listening as carefully as I could this evening, when opening the door I hear nothing. As I say the MKIV was pretty audible when I opened the drivers door and when I used to turn the key to the battery position. Will the pump throw up any error codes if there's a problem?

OK, if you have a 5 door, remove your rear seat squab (the bit your ar$e sits on), and try again to hear it.  Mine is quite noticeable.

Also, if you have VCDS, you can actually test cycle the in-tank pump.

[Teutonic_Tamer]

Your nozzle problem is common, a few people on here have had this, its just a matter of finding the correct angle, its down to the pumps you use and not the car.
As for the cold starts, mine has always struggled  (from new)when left for more than 2 days, all i do is keep the key turned that tiny bit longer. 

Agreed - this thread http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,498.0.html may give further advice.

[Teutonic_Tamer]

hey no apologies needed 
they cant adjust adaptation only reset it, in fact its advised after doing any mods to the car (e.g. air intake) to see how it adapts.
huge adaptation values indicate there can be an issue, anyway I digress...

you really need VCDS to be able to read rail / pump values, not much you could by turning the key.
The fuel system is 'split'
Theres a low pressure fuel side (in tank pump which you hear running) which feeds fuel to the high pressure side (pump that runs off camshaft/fuel rail).
The hp side feeds the injectors.
So when you have issues you need to diagnose both sides.

the pump priming the low pressure side isnt going to make one bit of difference to the high pressure rail side if you get my drift.

I think it will.  It is the low pressure side which provides the large 'volume' of fuel.  If this is lacking, then the high pressure side (which delivers considerably smaller volumes) will suffer.

So , no doing the 'key' thing isnt going to make any difference or tell you anything imho.

Disagree again.  Turning the ignition on, then leaving it for say 20-30 seconds (ideally until all the usual warning lights have gone out - airbag springs to mind), not only allows the low pressure to re-prime if needed, it also allows the throttle body alignment to complete (which occurs every time the ignition is turned on).

maybe just take it back to the dealer and say the starting is unacceptable? and push them a bit more...

Agreed.

[Kiwi]

It turned over but spluttered at 400rpms for a second or two then jumped straight upto 1100prm.

Mine does this too. Been like this for a while but i'm not particularly worried as mine is still covered under warranty - May 08 car with 19k miles.
When I had the service done in May this year the dealer advised a minor fault that needs rectifying under warranty - both intercooler pipes leaking - recommend seals.

Could this have anything to do with the cold start problem?

This i'll get them to fix the above and look at the cold start issue before winter.

You taking it to Preston VW ??

Could do with comparing mine with your also, as mine is in warranty too, and doesn't start clean either

[Mako V12V]

Yes it would go to VW Preston. How do you suggest a comparison between our cars?
Cheers Phil

[AnSGTI]

Well VW have checked measuring blocks 032 and say everything is OK so they now want to do a compression check next. 

I'm gutted, the cars just over 3 years old with 21K on the clock and FVWSH. I expected more I guess, I'm not sure I want to keep the car if they find something wrong. I'm pretty sure theirs a ceiling on the maximum amout I can claim on the warranty and engine work is going to suck it dry pretty quickly.

[Teutonic_Tamer]

Well VW have checked measuring blocks 032 and say everything is OK so they now want to do a compression check next. 

I'm gutted, the cars just over 3 years old with 21K on the clock and FVWSH. I expected more I guess, I'm not sure I want to keep the car if they find something wrong. I'm pretty sure theirs a ceiling on the maximum amout I can claim on the warranty and engine work is going to suck it dry pretty quickly.

I'd seriously consider getting a 2nd opinion from a trusted VAG indie specialist, or even a fellow forum member.  I'm sure you need no reminding on how inept many VW stealers can be at diagnosing faults - if you ain't carefull, they could reach the warranty threshold just from their attempts to correctly diagnose the prob.

[john_o]

hey no apologies needed 
they cant adjust adaptation only reset it, in fact its advised after doing any mods to the car (e.g. air intake) to see how it adapts.
huge adaptation values indicate there can be an issue, anyway I digress...

you really need VCDS to be able to read rail / pump values, not much you could by turning the key.
The fuel system is 'split'
Theres a low pressure fuel side (in tank pump which you hear running) which feeds fuel to the high pressure side (pump that runs off camshaft/fuel rail).
The hp side feeds the injectors.
So when you have issues you need to diagnose both sides.

the pump priming the low pressure side isnt going to make one bit of difference to the high pressure rail side if you get my drift.

I think it will.  It is the low pressure side which provides the large 'volume' of fuel.  If this is lacking, then the high pressure side (which delivers considerably smaller volumes) will suffer.

agreed, but my thinking was around cold start initial turns not during general running. the issue of the low pressure side not giving enough volume seems a common check once the high pressure side has been ruled out during remap issues. in some cases the in tank pump fuel filter has been implicated.
the owner talks about problems during start not during general running

So , no doing the 'key' thing isnt going to make any difference or tell you anything imho.

Disagree again.  Turning the ignition on, then leaving it for say 20-30 seconds (ideally until all the usual warning lights have gone out - airbag springs to mind), not only allows the low pressure to re-prime if needed, it also allows the throttle body alignment to complete (which occurs every time the ignition is turned on).

fair enough , try it and see if the cold start is any different

maybe just take it back to the dealer and say the starting is unacceptable? and push them a bit more...

Agreed.

thinking about this again you dont live on a steep drive do you???