Edition 30 - Large Carbon deposits on Injectors

[AnSGTI]

Thanks for the advice - spark plugs are from factory as far as I know. Car has 22,900 miles on the clock and has had 3 services, I'm guessing the plugs would be due to replaced at the enxt service (if I listen to VW under time/distance servicing)  

Don't have a socket (in my set) to check them - is applying copper grease to the thread on the plug good enough when I do replace them?

I just had a check under my bonnet after getting home - I could hear an electrical buzz coming from the alternator area. The car hadn't been switched off all that long but when I tried to trace it it sounded as though it was coming from the alternator (or that area). It sounded like a power adapter I guess, not a 50hz hum but an electrical hum or sorts. Is this normal? I'm going to go out now and check it's still l doing it. Nope noise has now stopped.

Is this my dump divertor valve on the front of the engine on my ED30? I'm positive my car isn't as fast as it should be and would like to check the diaphragm - I can't hear the turbo at all having come from a MKIV 1.8T I could always hear a whistle from the turbo (although it was mapped).



Sorry loads of questions - I should be writing you a cheque!  

[vRStu]

The black unit at the front is the DV (Diverter Valve).  That's what you are referring to as the Dump Valve.

Remove the torx bolt holding the bracket to the mount and then you can pull the mount to one side far enough to get good access to the DV.

[Teutonic_Tamer]

Thanks for the advice - spark plugs are from factory as far as I know. Car has 22,900 miles on the clock and has had 3 services, I'm guessing the plugs would be due to replaced at the enxt service (if I listen to VW under time/distance servicing)

Unless you specifically ask for the plugs to be changed on the 4th service, I doubt they'd replace them.

Don't have a socket (in my set) to check them - is applying copper grease to the thread on the plug good enough when I do replace them?

Copper grease is OK - at push!  Trouble with most copper greases is they are fairly shyte - either the copper particles are too large and then become mildly abrasive, or the bonding grease is poor quality and goes 'sticky'.  There is only one make of copper grease I'd personally recommend - the orginal Copaslip, made by Molyslip.
[pdf]http://www.cromwell.co.uk/static/publication/778/pages/1268.pdf[/pdf]
I much prefer something called Never-Seez Pure Nickel Special - http://www.cromwell.co.uk/BST7050702G - which has super tiny nickel particles, and a completely non-sticky bonding grease base.

I just had a check under my bonnet after getting home - I could hear an electrical buzz coming from the alternator area. The car hadn't been switched off all that long but when I tried to trace it it sounded as though it was coming from the alternator (or that area). It sounded like a power adapter I guess, not a 50hz hum but an electrical hum or sorts. Is this normal? I'm going to go out now and check it's still l doing it. Nope noise has now stopped.

You've just heard the after-run electric coolant pump (which reverse flows the coolant through the turbo).  It is located low down at the front of the engine, below the oil filter, with two 3/4 inch coolant pipes.  It generally runs for anywhere between 90 seconds and 3ish minutes.  It should just be a very gentle whirring - if it sounds grindy or is vibrating the coolant pipes - then it is foobared.  Mine went at about 28-30k miles - replaced under warranty.

Is this my dump valve on the front of the engine on my ED30? I'm positive my car isn't as fast as it should be and would like to check the diaphragm - I can't hear the turbo at all having come from a MKIV 1.8T I could always hear a whistle from the turbo (although it was mapped).

Yes, next to the corner of the silver bit of your engine cover.  Generally, most peeps don't hear the turbo on the Mk5.  The only time I've heard mine is with the engine cover removed.  The Ed30 engine should pull like a train all the way to 6,500 rpm - if it doesn't, and seems to run out of puff - then the DV is a likely candidate for being foobared.  Fairly cheap, and very easy on an Eddy to replace - and the latest OEM valves have been re-designed to a piston type, compared to the earlier diaphragm type.

Sorry loads of questions - I should be writing you a cheque! 

Ssssshhhhh - don't say that - Mrs Tamer will hold you to that! 

[AnSGTI]

The black unit at the front is the DV (Diverter Valve).  That's what you are referring to as the Dump Valve.

Remove the torx bolt holding the bracket to the mount and then you can pull the mount to one side far enough to get good access to the DV.

  I can see three torx screws in the picture, I haven't had a very close inspection but you've kind of lost me. 

[Teutonic_Tamer]

The black unit at the front is the DV (Diverter Valve).  That's what you are referring to as the Dump Valve.

Remove the torx bolt holding the bracket to the mount and then you can pull the mount to one side far enough to get good access to the DV.

  I can see three torx screws in the picture, I haven't had a very close inspection but you've kind of lost me. 

Those three torx screws are what hold your DV in place.  First disconnect the wiring connector, then remove the three torx screws, and the DV will slide out with a bit of a wiggle.

[Mako V12V]

I checked today and the top up oil I was given, being the same 10W 40 put in at service is classed as 505.00 oil. I shall be having words tomorrow.

I think I mentioned earlier, 505.00 is only for DIESELS - and very old low spec ones at that.  There really is no way they can waffle their way out of this issue.

Good luck, and keep us updated.

Well you wont be surprised to learn that the Service Manager waffled his way out of this issue. Unfortunately he phoned me in a busy spell whilst i was at work and i didn't have a clear head to put my arguements across.
In a nut shell he said the VW 505.00 oil was a VW approved oil for my car and he had all the relevant bumf from VW to confirm this. However, he couldn't fax or email anything over to me to back up this as it was reproducing VW stuff which he couldn't do. Looks like i'll have to pay a visit.
Also, i've just registered with erWin which is VW AG supported but to get the relevant info i'd have to pay. Is this worthwhile? I could do to go armed with some official VW document proving him wrong.

[Mako V12V]

Oh yeah, forgot to mention, i'd got the dealer to price match another vw garage which knocked about £45 off their official price. Maybe this is there real excuse for putting crap old diesel oil in my Eddy?

[RedRobin]

^^^^
The Teutonic Tamer takes on Herr Volkswagen in a mud an oil wrestling contest  

[Teutonic_Tamer]

I checked today and the top up oil I was given, being the same 10W 40 put in at service is classed as 505.00 oil. I shall be having words tomorrow.

I think I mentioned earlier, 505.00 is only for DIESELS - and very old low spec ones at that.  There really is no way they can waffle their way out of this issue.

Good luck, and keep us updated.

Well you wont be surprised to learn that the Service Manager waffled his way out of this issue. Unfortunately he phoned me in a busy spell whilst i was at work and i didn't have a clear head to put my arguements across.
In a nut shell he said the VW 505.00 oil was a VW approved oil for my car and he had all the relevant bumf from VW to confirm this. However, he couldn't fax or email anything over to me to back up this as it was reproducing VW stuff which he couldn't do. Looks like i'll have to pay a visit.
Also, i've just registered with erWin which is VW AG supported but to get the relevant info i'd have to pay. Is this worthwhile? I could do to go armed with some official VW document proving him wrong.

Like I have repeatedly stated - 505.00 is a DIESEL engine standard.  The stealers know this, and they are now blatantly lieing to you.  You really need to follow the steps I previously listed:

• Get your book wallet out, and look in '3.3 Technical data' - page 9, engine oil specifiation.  The ONLY oil specs are: 504.00, 503.00, 502.00, 501.01.  501.01 is now an obsolete specification.  502.00 and 503.00 are no longer authorised for official workshop use.  There is NO mention of 505.00 (because the GTI is a petrol, not diesel).  Do NOT refer to any listed oil standards in the service book - '1.1 Service schedule' - as this booklet covers a large number of VW cars, and so will have oil specs for both petrol and diesel engines
• Demand that you get the service manager to enter your VIN on to ETKA (the official VW electronic parts catalogue) - and DEMAND that you BOTH look at the engine oil page for your specific car - it will clearly state that ONLY 504.00 oils are to be used in petrol engines
• Demand that the Service manager then logs into their own ELSA-WIN, and orders up a service schedule - again, this will list ONLY 504.00 oils

Be 100% firm with them.  If they refuse to conceed they are wrong - demand to speak to the 'Dealer Principal' - giving him one last chance.  Otherwise, advise the DP that you will be logging a formal complaint with Volkswagen UK Customer Services.  Their behaviour is just utter incompetence.

You really need to now name and shame this dealer.

And onto the erWin issue - yes, you DO have to pay for most things - but it will allow you to print the full service checklist of your next service (which states what oil is to be used - identical to what the service department should be using).  However, you can download the latest official VW approved oils and their relevent oil standards.  Look carefully at the related 505.01 pdf list - and you should notice that a high proportion of the oils are something like 'Turbo Diesel', 'TDI', or 'PD'.

Finally, look at this website - http://www.oilspecifications.org/volkswagen.php - it clearly confirms everything I have stated about 505.00 being a diesel engine oil standard.

I'm fairly adamant that virtually all of the UK based forums (don't bother with the US-based ones) will mirror everything I've stated, and confirm that 504.00 oils are the only ones to be used in ALL Volkswagen Group petrols.


DLTBGYD, and good luck. 

[AnSGTI]

^ Every thread I have come across shows the oil to be 5W30 which is also what I used to put in my old MKIV 1.8T. I really want to get what's un mine drained and swapped over to 5W30, I don't see why I should be covering their incompetence though.

I'd like to climb on this too - once we get somewhere I'd be happy to share the dealers I called who all agreed 10W40 was the oil to use 

[Teutonic_Tamer]

^ Every thread I have come across shows the oil to be 5W30 which is also what I used to put in my old MKIV 1.8T. I really want to get what's un mine drained and swapped over to 5W30, I don't see why I should be covering their incompetence though.

I'd like to climb on this too - once we get somewhere I'd be happy to share the dealers I called who all agreed 10W40 was the oil to use 

Just name and shame them now:

Every GTI owners handbook proves them wrong
ETKA proves them wrong
ELSA proves them wrong
erWin proves them wrong
OATS proves them wrong

Five differing sources . . .

[Mako V12V]

You're gonna love this!! Here we go:-
1. Phoned VW customer Services on 0800 0833 920.
2. Eventually got through to Katie.
3. Explained that i'd spoken with my dealer first (service advisor then service manager) re them putting the wrong type of oil in and that I thought I had been fobbed off.
4. She took the oil type they had put in (10W 40, VW505.00).
5. She asked me what type I thought they should have put in (5W 30, VW 504.00).
6. She took my reg (or VIN number if your records are not up-to-date with VW).
7. I informed her my manual confirmed the correct use of VW 504.00 and a knowledgeable forum member had also confirmed as much via ETKA, ELSA, erWin and OATS and that VW505.00 was for diesel engines.
8. She put me on hold for ten minutes - she spoke with Steve who is a Technician there.

THE REPLY?

The recommended oil for your car is VW 503.00 or 504.00 but 505.00 is actually the better oil as it is more technologically advanced!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

At this point I pointed out that this contradicated everything else out there to which she maintained that's what the Technician had said/checked and said that VW 505.00 is suitable for my car.

At this stage I gave up as basically I was arguing with VW UK.

Sean - please feel free to follow this up with Steve the Technician at VW UK!

Cheers - Phil

[Teutonic_Tamer]

You're gonna love this!! Here we go:-
1. Phoned VW customer Services on 0800 0833 920.
2. Eventually got through to Katie.
3. Explained that i'd spoken with my dealer first (service advisor then service manager) re them putting the wrong type of oil in and that I thought I had been fobbed off.
4. She took the oil type they had put in (10W 40, VW505.00).
5. She asked me what type I thought they should have put in (5W 30, VW 504.00).
6. She took my reg (or VIN number if your records are not up-to-date with VW).
7. I informed her my manual confirmed the correct use of VW 504.00 and a knowledgeable forum member had also confirmed as much via ETKA, ELSA, erWin and OATS and that VW505.00 was for diesel engines.
8. She put me on hold for ten minutes - she spoke with Steve who is a Technician there.

THE REPLY?

The recommended oil for your car is VW 503.00 or 504.00 but 505.00 is actually the better oil as it is more technologically advanced!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

At this point I pointed out that this contradicated everything else out there to which she maintained that's what the Technician had said/checked and said that VW 505.00 is suitable for my car.

At this stage I gave up as basically I was arguing with VW UK.

Sean - please feel free to follow this up with Steve the Technician at VW UK!

Cheers - Phil

You need to put all that in writing, and copy it to Volkswagen AG in Wolfsburg.  EVERY official technical source from VW (ELSA, ETKA, erWin), along with that oil specification website - ALL confirm that 505.00 is ONLY for diesels.

EDIT:  And their claim that 505.00 is more advanced than 504.00 is pure BS, and incompetence of the highest order - because Duckhams Q 20w50 green mineral oil from the 1970-80s was/is 505.00 approved!

And how about another angle of attack - what 'brand' of oil did they use (you may have already said, but I can't remember).  Phone the technical department of the oil company, and just ask them what type of engines VW 505.00 is for.  You might need to quote the specific oil which was used.  Then ask them if it is suitable for a car which needs 504.00?

[Mako V12V]

Sean - i've lost the will to live with this one and haven't the time to invest in pursuing this further.

Thanks for all your help on this though.

[AnSGTI]

This is exactly what I found speaking to several, OK four dealers they were all convinced 10W40 was the best oil for the car - it doesn't matter what you say in their mind they are correct and no customer on the end of the telephone is going to say otherwsie.

Sean - i've lost the will to live with this one and haven't the time to invest in pursuing this further.

Thanks for all your help on this though.

I can't help but wonder if our cold starts have something to do with this grade of oil - hence I'm changing mine within the enxt few weeks to 5W30