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Author Topic: SSD Drives  (Read 3803 times)

Offline vRS Carl

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SSD Drives
« on: August 28, 2010, 06:33:40 pm »
Been considering an upgrade to SSD for a while now. I am computer savvy but not to sure about SSD at the moment.

I currently have:

Apple MacBook Pro 15" Unibody (June 09 version)
2.8Ghz Intel Core 2 Duo
4Gb DDR3 1066mhz Ram
500Gb 7200 Rpm HDD (i upgraded this from the 5400 rpm one it came with)

Now i prefer not to carry loads of stuff around with me. I have my iPad for that.

However for UK based work i carry in addition to the MBP & Power Cables:

500Gb Portable HDD which is used purely for Time Machine
500Gb Portable HDD which has all my Films on (of all varieties  :evilgrin:)
500Gb Portable HDD which has all my Data/Work stuff on.

Now if i decide to go for a 240Gb SSD Drive (like this ONE Ifti installed) will i still get the same speed as the Data being accessed is on a 7200rpm drive therefore will only go so fast. Or will i get a big increase.

I know that the start up both for the OS & Apps will be quicker but will it all just slow down due to using the External drive.

Also can you run VMWare on an SSD Drive.

Would it be possible to retain the current HDD in the machine and Also install an SSD or would it just be a case of one or the other?

Offline StephenED30

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Re: SSD Drives
« Reply #1 on: August 28, 2010, 07:00:16 pm »
Just run some tests on my computer  with crystal  disc mark


 
Hard disc C is a Crucial M225 256Gb, and D is a Samsung spinpoint F1 1TB.
Dont forget you will get better battery life if this is a laptop.
Other than that sorry dont know anything about Macs.

Offline Hedge

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Re: SSD Drives
« Reply #2 on: August 28, 2010, 07:26:13 pm »
An SSD will/should behave exactly the same as a normal HDD except much faster.

Ultimately the Mac will need to have a Sata II interface to get the most out of it but even if not you should see an improvement.

VMWare and other stuff should just work as before. If you are concerned about external HDD performance use Firewire.

Offline bacillus

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Re: SSD Drives
« Reply #3 on: August 28, 2010, 07:49:55 pm »
Just a word of warning here  :scared:

The present Apple software doesn't support TRIM (this is important to keep your ssd running at it's best). Without TRIM your SSd performance will slowly degrade, the rate dependent on how much writing and deletions you perform. atm only Windows 7 supports TRIM.
Without traction power is nothing!

Offline Hedge

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Re: SSD Drives
« Reply #4 on: August 28, 2010, 07:57:07 pm »
The MacBook Air uses SSD so just buy one of those Carl. http://www.apple.com/macbookair/

Offline vRS Carl

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Re: SSD Drives
« Reply #5 on: August 28, 2010, 09:18:00 pm »
Not quick enough though Ian for what i need.

You can buy a 15" MBP with a 512Gb SSD but its a £1k option :sad1:
« Last Edit: August 28, 2010, 09:19:39 pm by vRS Carl »

Offline Hedge

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Re: SSD Drives
« Reply #6 on: August 28, 2010, 09:27:48 pm »
Not quick enough though Ian for what i need.

You can buy a 15" MBP with a 512Gb SSD but its a £1k option :sad1:


Well best MTFU and buy one then.  :laugh:

MacBook Air not quick enough??? You can only watch pr0n so fast.  :P

Offline vRS Carl

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Re: SSD Drives
« Reply #7 on: August 28, 2010, 09:47:51 pm »
Well best MTFU and buy one then.  :laugh:

I'm Allllllllll Man  :wink:

MacBook Air not quick enough??? You can only watch pr0n so fast.  :P

Yeah but when i'm editing it i need some power  :wink:

Where do you think all the clips on xHamster and YouJizz etc come from  :laugh:

Offline Hedge

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Re: SSD Drives
« Reply #8 on: August 28, 2010, 09:51:44 pm »
I say stick an SSD in and give it a go. If it doesn't work out just put your old HDD back in.

Simples.  :wink:

Ifti

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Re: SSD Drives
« Reply #9 on: August 29, 2010, 04:33:15 pm »
You will see a huge difference in speeds. My MAC boot up time has reduced quite a bit - the wheel spins 1.5 times I think, and Im booted!
Also, while using the drive, you'll notice applications open MUCH faster, and are just more generally responsive overall.

A word of advice though - you cannot ever defrag a SSD. It will reduce its performance. Data on a SSD in a MAC is written throughout all the blocks. As you add data its written to the 'end' block, whether you have deleted some space or not. When the drive reaches the last blocks, its goes back to the blocks where data was previously marked as deleted.
When data is deleted from a SSD, the blocks are only marked as deleted, they are not actually cleared for new data. As a result, when you wish to write new data to those blocks, the drive needs to clear the data and then write the new data to it.

As a result of this, SSD drives are known to 'slow down' over time, depending on how much you have used it.
This is where a feature known as TRIM comes into play. When the system is idle, the drive will clean itself up without you even knowing. Hence it will delete the data from the blocks marked as 'deleted' previously. This means those blocks are now free from any data and can be written to very quickly - just like when it was new.

Windows 7 supports TRIM. BUT the OS X DOES NOT.......yet!

Bear with me here......
When you buy your SSD, you will either get an older SSD with an 'Indilinx' controller, or the newer (and more expensive) SSDs will have the 'SANDFORCE' controller.

Make sure you buy a SSD with the SANDFORCE controller!
What this newer controller does is it 'TRIMs' on-the-fly. The OS does not need to support TRIM. So when the drive is idle it will clean itself up, and remain fast.

For example, I have had my drive for several months now. When I apply a large update, for example, I notice the system is a little slow - just like running from a 7200rpm HDD. However, after a few hours I notice its back up to high SSD speed - I believe this is after the drive has reorganised its data, and TRIM'd itself.
As you correctly pointed out - I have a 240GB Vertex 2 SSD - and its been just as fast as day 1. Trust me, you'll notice the system is much more nippier.

The OWC Mercury Extreme is another Sandforce based SSD which is also known to be very highly recommended.

Another word of advice - do not try to clone your current disc across. Its always better to re-install from scratch when upgrading to a SSD. I did clone across since my MAC was pretty new and I didnt have that much on it at all, but apparently its still always better to reinstall from new so the SSD has its blocks written to sequentially.

I made a couple of Youtube videos showing the difference in speed.
This is the first video which shows the install and original speed differences.....



After making that video, after a day or so, I noticed the drive had suddenly got even faster. I think this was after the drive had settled in, and its on-the-fly TRIM'ing had kicked in to reorganise the disc etc.........




Hope that helps  :wink:

Ifti

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Re: SSD Drives
« Reply #10 on: August 29, 2010, 04:35:18 pm »
I also forgot to point out, that my system battery lasts a little longer, and Ive also noticed the temps are much better - its always cool to the touch (unless you are really doing some heavy editing etc).

Also, since the SSD has no moving parts, its COMPLETELY silent. You cant hear anything whatsoever, just the very faint noise of the system fan, which is still hardly noticable.

You can install 2 drives in your MAC if you wish, but at the expense of your DVD drive.
You can buy one of these optibay's, which fit in where the DVD drive goes, and allows you to use a second SSD/HDD instead.....

http://www.mcetech.com/optibay/

Bear in mind this REPLACES the DVD drive, but you get a free external enclosure to put your DVD drive into, so you can still use it via USB.

Also remember that its best to have the SSD as your primary drive, with the OS and your programs installed (obviously), since this is where your speed boost will come from. The Optibay is more for adding a higher capacity HDD, which is only used for storage.
This also keeps costs down, as you could just buy a cheaper 50GB SSD if you wanted, and then have a large 500GB HDD in the Optibay for storage.
As a general rule hough, keep the SSD primary, with the OS and system programs etc installed, and use the second HDD in the Optibay for storage of data etc.

Also bear in mind adding a second drive will consume more battery power, and also generate a touch more heat  :wink:
« Last Edit: August 29, 2010, 04:43:29 pm by Ifti »

Ifti

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Re: SSD Drives
« Reply #11 on: August 29, 2010, 04:49:56 pm »
Not quick enough though Ian for what i need.

You can buy a 15" MBP with a 512Gb SSD but its a £1k option :sad1:


I hear Apple use Samsung SSD drives - cheaper drives using the Indilinx controller. They are lower quality drives in general.
You are better off buying the SSD and installing it yourself.

It wil NOT void your Apple warranty on the MacBook Pro, as long as your do not break anything while opening it up! Apple just will not cover the SSD for any failures obviously, but will still honour the warranty on the rest of the notebook.

If you EVER need to send you notebook in for repair, PLEASE MAKE SURE you remove the SSD and put the old HDD back in!!
Ive read so many stories of people sending their systems in for repair, and Apple remove the SSD and put a standard HDD back in, and keep the SSD back!! You then have to go through several hoops trying to get your own SSD back!!!!

Ifti

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Re: SSD Drives
« Reply #12 on: August 29, 2010, 04:52:03 pm »
An SSD will/should behave exactly the same as a normal HDD except much faster.

VMWare and other stuff should just work as before. If you are concerned about external HDD performance use Firewire.

The SSD will not only be faster, it will be completely silent, and also run cooler - plus it usues much less power since it has no moving parts.

All software will work fine on it, as the system just see's it as another storage drive.

When it comes to external drives, all of mine have Firewire. Its much faster then USB2!

Offline vRS Carl

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Re: SSD Drives
« Reply #13 on: August 29, 2010, 05:03:14 pm »
Thanks for all that Info Ifti. Makes things a lot clearer. I think once i sort a few other financial issues out i may be going for one of those drives with the Sandforce controller :happy2: :happy2:

The only drama i have with my drives is they are portable ones so no firewire support  :sad1: I don't really want to be going to a bigger desktop size external HDD as then i have to start carrying not only the extra bulk of the drive but also power supply which then in turn means carrying a 4 way adaptor with me (sometimes i go places with only one electrical point in the room)

I think i will hold off till around Dec/Jan time as the drives should have dropped a bit by then and i might be able to get a 480Gb one for a lot cheaper. :happy2:


Ifti

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Re: SSD Drives
« Reply #14 on: August 29, 2010, 05:16:08 pm »
I have 2 of these:

http://www.play.com/PC/PCs/4-/13955178/Western-Digital-My-Passport-Studio-640GB-2-5-inch-External-Firewire-800-USB-2-0-Hard-Drive/Product.html?_%24ja=tsid:11518%7Ccc:%7Cprd:13955178%7Ccat:Hard+Drives

I use one for my backups, and the for all my data storage.
When I connect directly to my MacBook (if Im doing something intensive like editing, or just copying data around) I use Firewire 800.
However, they also have USB, so if Im connecting to another system with no Firewire I can use the USB - I also connect the drives to my Airport Extreme vis USb to access them over the wireless.

I also have one of these, which again has both firewire and USB, which is my master disc for backing up other portable drives, as well as my family photo's & videos etc. Its good since I have it set to mirror one drive to the other, for the ultimate in backup!

http://www.wdc.com/en/products/products.asp?driveid=621

I know you already have your external drives etc, but for future reference, its wise to spend that little bit extra and go for drives with Firewire as well as USB, so you have the choice of using either when and as you need them.
The Western Digital Studio range of drives (the silver ones) are all aimed primarily at MAC users and have all the ports you'd need  :wink:


« Last Edit: August 29, 2010, 05:18:16 pm by Ifti »