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Author Topic: Power from a stage 1 map? Possibly more than you would think!  (Read 26461 times)

Offline Janner_Sy

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Re: Power from a stage 1 map? Possibly more than you would think!
« Reply #15 on: September 06, 2010, 07:21:53 pm »
how did it compare in comparison then?

.
Interesting.. On JKM's Dyno-Dynamics I was consistently seeing around 240 bhp on Revo Stage 2! And now it's only the addition of the Forge Twintake which has taken my K03 GTI to around 260 bhp. Great driveability though and that's what matters to me most.

yours is different, i reckon your settings are low, as i have seen quite a few stage 1 revo cars  make those figures on JKMs, as well as my stage 1 bluefin.  Coincidently yours is the only sub 250hp stage 2 ive seen from JKMs dyno.  but as you say, its if you like the end result what counts, and you are obviously more than happy with what you have :happy2:

Offline RENNTAG

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Re: Power from a stage 1 map? Possibly more than you would think!
« Reply #16 on: September 06, 2010, 07:43:44 pm »
Damn, just missed out  :sad:
i have a standard KO3 car and was gonna be up that way soon.

Offline Top Cat

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Re: Power from a stage 1 map? Possibly more than you would think!
« Reply #17 on: September 06, 2010, 08:12:01 pm »
My car only got 250 BHP on PDT's own rollers and that is with 2+ map S3 and forge twinter. The only thing missing at the time was a intake. I got 259 on dyne dynamics rollers last year without the HPFP pump and 2+ map. Once i added the intake i managed a 13.7 on the strip at inters, which if you check the fastest Ko3DSG cars on Jonny's list is ahead of all the competition i think.  :happy2:

What i am trying to say is i am pretty sure my car is running well and near the maximum for it's spec and yet only got 250 on PDT's rollers, and yet a stage one car with his own map managed an incredible 262.  :chicken:

Just my opinion of course but something smells fishy to me, I know that revo's main aim is to get the best figures of all the tuners, rightly or wrongly, so how come Dave has managed to turn 2 fish and five loaves into a banquet.  :innocent:

Offline vwrascal

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Re: Power from a stage 1 map? Possibly more than you would think!
« Reply #18 on: September 06, 2010, 08:15:32 pm »
 :popcornsoda:

Offline Janner_Sy

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Re: Power from a stage 1 map? Possibly more than you would think!
« Reply #19 on: September 06, 2010, 08:38:08 pm »
easy to make good power on a dyno, use a bungee cord to strap it down :grin:

« Last Edit: September 06, 2010, 08:42:03 pm by Janner_Sy »

Offline vRS Carl

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Re: Power from a stage 1 map? Possibly more than you would think!
« Reply #20 on: September 06, 2010, 08:40:01 pm »
Just my opinion of course but something smells fishy to me, I know that revo's main aim is to get the best figures of all the tuners, rightly or wrongly, so how come Dave has managed to turn 2 fish and five loaves into a banquet.  :innocent:

 :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Foook me i just spat my tea all over the desk. Thats one of the funniest posts i've seen.

On a side note i know of a Skoda Octavia vRS that got 266bhp on Stage 1 REVO.

BUT it had all the mods that now reside on my car (less a catch can) as i bought most of them, so EVOMS, HPFP, Neuspeed Turbo Outlet, S3 Cooler. The settings were quite aggressive too (B8 T7 F7 iirc)

Sometimes i think some cars just don't perform on the Dyno. My car is REVO Stage 2+ but i cannot make anymore than 265bhp and 300lb/ft on JKM's Rollers. But my car is quicker (and by some margin) than a mates who is REVO stage 2 and gets 258Bhp.
« Last Edit: September 06, 2010, 08:42:59 pm by vRS Carl »

Offline damoegan

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Re: Power from a stage 1 map? Possibly more than you would think!
« Reply #21 on: September 06, 2010, 08:49:46 pm »
easy to make good power on a dyno, use a bungee cord to strap it down :grin:



I've seen Blade's Leon do that before  :surprised:
« Last Edit: September 06, 2010, 09:40:59 pm by damoegan »

Offline Janner_Sy

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Re: Power from a stage 1 map? Possibly more than you would think!
« Reply #22 on: September 06, 2010, 08:52:25 pm »
gives high readings, and i s a result of the dyno operator not strapping down correctly or sufficiently.  ive seen cars dyno  500Hp that havent done that

Offline vRS Carl

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Re: Power from a stage 1 map? Possibly more than you would think!
« Reply #23 on: September 06, 2010, 08:54:57 pm »
ive seen cars dyno  500Hp that havent done that

I'm going to flutter my eyelashes at Keith from JKM just before i eventually sell mine and see if he can give me a Dyno Printout for 500bhp on the vRS :laugh: :laugh:

Offline PDT

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Re: Power from a stage 1 map? Possibly more than you would think!
« Reply #24 on: September 06, 2010, 09:37:03 pm »
My car only got 250 BHP on PDT's own rollers and that is with 2+ map S3 and forge twinter. The only thing missing at the time was a intake. I got 259 on dyne dynamics rollers last year without the HPFP pump and 2+ map. Once i added the intake i managed a 13.7 on the strip at inters, which if you check the fastest Ko3DSG cars on Jonny's list is ahead of all the competition i think.  :happy2:

What i am trying to say is i am pretty sure my car is running well and near the maximum for it's spec and yet only got 250 on PDT's rollers, and yet a stage one car with his own map managed an incredible 262.  :chicken:

Just my opinion of course but something smells fishy to me, I know that revo's main aim is to get the best figures of all the tuners, rightly or wrongly, so how come Dave has managed to turn 2 fish and five loaves into a banquet.  :innocent:


I understand your scepticism, if I hadn't seen the proof then I would also be saying the same. The benefit of DD dynos are that they display the compensation calibrations at the bottom of the screen, so if someone tries to manipulate the final figures it's simple to see it has been done.

You can't compare a Revo product to this product as it is a different item, as a Revo dealer I understand and know the limitations of the software, with a custom written map there are no limitations as such and with plenty of research and development you can achieve very good results.

You could say that the dyno is reading high, but one of the cars in question made more or less original power, the car tuned today made a standard figure 2 % higher that expected, and after testing various map versions we settled on a power figure of 258 bhp.

If in doubt, I will gladly post the power graph, complete with atmospheric conditions and compensation calibrations for scrutiny, even send them to DynoDynamics to be checked if you like.

As for strapping with a bungee cord, nice idea but strapping a car in that manor on a dyno is not only highly dangerous but also the car would not produce a clean smooth graph as it would simply wheelspin and pull all over the place, as that Leon did in that video :signLOL:

During the test on all cars they are strapped in the same manor, just because your car (topcat) didn't make great figures, doesn't mean it is slow, it just doesn't make as much power as another car, the dyno measures power and unless it falsely calibrated (easy to see if this has happened) then it can't discriminate from one car to the next.

Why does this stage 1 / custom map make more power that an equivalent stage 2 branded product ? Its all in the mapping, And to someone that understands mapping and logging, if you compare the two then the reason for the strong torque curve and good power figure the reason will be obvious. I am sure if this change was made to many other stage 1 maps they could achieve the same but it's not a conventional map that gets adjusted it's usually ignored due to the complexities involved, I have however seen very similar power from 1 other companies maps, they also adjust this parameter in a similar way, so it's by no means a new 'miracle invention'

Dave. 

Offline Poppa Dom

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Re: Power from a stage 1 map? Possibly more than you would think!
« Reply #25 on: September 06, 2010, 09:44:19 pm »
Am really interested in this discussion, despite having a K04 based car. Dave, can you elaborate a little on the limitations of Revo, compared to a custom map and how this removes such limitations. I like the technical discussions  :happy2:

Offline damoegan

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Re: Power from a stage 1 map? Possibly more than you would think!
« Reply #26 on: September 06, 2010, 09:45:04 pm »
I know its the wrong thread Dave, but what can you get out of a standard k04?

Offline Sie

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Re: Power from a stage 1 map? Possibly more than you would think!
« Reply #27 on: September 06, 2010, 09:50:21 pm »
Yer what effects would this custom mapping have on stage 2 and stage 2+ cars?? You tried any yet??

Sie
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Offline Russ_leeds

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Re: Power from a stage 1 map? Possibly more than you would think!
« Reply #28 on: September 06, 2010, 09:53:31 pm »
Hi all. I went to PDT today and had the map installed. wat can i say but wow! had a bit of fun on the way home was really impressed with the acceleration in 6th from 70. the car feels a lot smoother and pulls a lot harder in every gear and across the full rev range. :driver:  my filal figures were 258bhp and 312ftlb :evilgrin:
i had a race with my mate in his stg2 megane sport running 275bhp and 335ftlb and there was nothing in it :jumpmove:

just like to say thanks to dave top bloke :drinking:
Black 2007 gti, 18' monza 2, sat-nav, highline, i-pod dock, armrest, 35mm H&R springs, WALK, BCS tbe, autotech front and rear arbs, ITG maxogen, NQSBBK... and more to come

Offline vRS Carl

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Re: Power from a stage 1 map? Possibly more than you would think!
« Reply #29 on: September 06, 2010, 09:54:10 pm »
So how much would it be to have an Equivalent Stage 2+ custom map from you

I currently have REVO but would be interested in this if you could achieve similar results over the stage 2+ :happy2: