Make a donation

Author Topic: Power from a stage 1 map? Possibly more than you would think!  (Read 26334 times)

Offline bacillus

  • Just look at my post count
  • ******
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 4
  • -Receive: 451
  • Posts: 6329
Re: Power from a stage 1 map? Possibly more than you would think!
« Reply #60 on: September 06, 2010, 11:08:59 pm »
Here is the graph.

Without traction power is nothing!

Offline PDT

  • Just look at my post count
  • ******
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 3
  • -Receive: 142
  • Posts: 2010
    • Email
Re: Power from a stage 1 map? Possibly more than you would think!
« Reply #61 on: September 06, 2010, 11:27:20 pm »
That car had a milltek catback and k&n panel ^^^

Offline P80RSY

  • Taking part
  • ***
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 1
  • -Receive: 0
  • Posts: 41
    • Email
Re: Power from a stage 1 map? Possibly more than you would think!
« Reply #62 on: September 06, 2010, 11:29:16 pm »
Will this map be available on your usual deal of £199 ?
« Last Edit: September 07, 2010, 12:05:51 am by P80RSY »

Offline Janner_Sy

  • Just look at my post count
  • ******
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 62
  • -Receive: 113
  • Posts: 5392
Re: Power from a stage 1 map? Possibly more than you would think!
« Reply #63 on: September 07, 2010, 05:37:14 pm »
any luck with the  other graphs and logs?

Offline vRS Carl

  • Just look at my post count
  • ******
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 282
  • -Receive: 240
  • Posts: 3088
  • I'm the F.A.G (Forum Apple Guru)
Re: Power from a stage 1 map? Possibly more than you would think!
« Reply #64 on: September 07, 2010, 07:27:57 pm »
I would say this is more like phase2 mapping?
From what I have seen from the k03 340lbft 262bhp is certainly not safe power to be runing from the stock dowpipe. What sort of egts was the car running after 30 seconds at full load held @ 3500rpm and then at 6000rpm?   How come the power tails of so early at 6000rpm?  I would have thought you would allow the power to carry on upto 7000rpm?     

There is no point going past 6k rpm on K03 so the dyno run is stopped.

Offline PDT

  • Just look at my post count
  • ******
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 3
  • -Receive: 142
  • Posts: 2010
    • Email
Re: Power from a stage 1 map? Possibly more than you would think!
« Reply #65 on: September 07, 2010, 07:45:41 pm »
Phase1 or phase 2. Or custom, it all means different things to different people and different tuning companies so you can't categorise every tuning method.

stage 1 is generally perceived to be the best option for a standard car and further mods require further tuning options, we offer 2 options for turbo petrols, stage 1 for standard cars and custom mapping for anything after that and then REVO of course has its own upgrade path.

The reason power is tailed off at 6500 rpm is due to the fact the power curve has plateu'd at this point and the KO3 tends not to enjoy high rpm as it simply can't move the volume of air associated with high rpm, especially with intake temps on the standard intercooler and the restriction posed by the standard intake. EGT's are within acceptable levels even held on the dyno under high load, however dyno testing EGT's isn't ideal as they never replicate on road EGT testing, but as a rule if it's safe on the dyno it generally will never see the same level of load in real world conditions, I have logged literally hundreds of cars on the road and the dyno for EGT's and held under load over 5 runs on the dyno the peak EGT's are usually 20% higher that any replicated road car, on road test.

The power achieved is extremely safe on the standard down pipe, an aftermarket down pipe would be a benefit but not essential for this level of mapping, after all we are only talking a few % more power over and above what Giac and Revo can achieve with a stage 1 map.

Saint Steve

  • Guest
Re: Power from a stage 1 map? Possibly more than you would think!
« Reply #66 on: September 07, 2010, 07:54:54 pm »
Here is the graph.



Air temps and Intake temps are rather high from this graph !! :surprised: . To get such a good figure with high temp readings is surprising.

Normally air temps half that will get improoved results.

I cant see how a K03 with a stage 1, catback exhaust and a Improoved oem filter element will make such a gain...

A k04 stage 1 Edition 30 ive seen has ran 265bhp on DD rollers with a full milltek exhaust aswell, and that car was perfectly healthy. :stupid:

« Last Edit: September 07, 2010, 08:02:15 pm by Saint Steve »

Offline vRS Carl

  • Just look at my post count
  • ******
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 282
  • -Receive: 240
  • Posts: 3088
  • I'm the F.A.G (Forum Apple Guru)
Re: Power from a stage 1 map? Possibly more than you would think!
« Reply #67 on: September 07, 2010, 08:02:41 pm »
^^^^

Are you sure as redline on a K03 is 6500rpm.

I don't know of any decent tuner that takes a K03 beyond 6000-6500rpm on a Dyno :confused:

K04 yes but K03 no chance.

Offline rtechniki

  • Always Involved
  • ****
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 0
  • -Receive: 27
  • Posts: 105
    • Email
Re: Power from a stage 1 map? Possibly more than you would think!
« Reply #68 on: September 07, 2010, 08:12:29 pm »





Nick Gower
R-Tech Performance Tuning
Hinckley 01455 617233
Bespoke ECU Software for 1.8T & 2.0TFSI

Offline vRS Carl

  • Just look at my post count
  • ******
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 282
  • -Receive: 240
  • Posts: 3088
  • I'm the F.A.G (Forum Apple Guru)
Re: Power from a stage 1 map? Possibly more than you would think!
« Reply #69 on: September 07, 2010, 08:22:00 pm »
^^^^

I stand corrected. I just looked at my last graph from JKM and that goes to 6900 rpm :drinking:

Offline PDT

  • Just look at my post count
  • ******
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 3
  • -Receive: 142
  • Posts: 2010
    • Email
Re: Power from a stage 1 map? Possibly more than you would think!
« Reply #70 on: September 07, 2010, 08:46:01 pm »
20-25 degrees is classed as low by most, either way the temps are irrelevant to dyno figures as long as the AT and IT are relatively close as the dyno be backcalculted and compensated for. After all, if it's 20degrees on the day, you can't make it any lower than that!

Thers no benefit in revving the car to 7000rpm and holding the power on a flat output as this won't benefit real world performance and acceleration as peak torque has been and gone. Saying that the car could be revved higher on the dyno to show where the power tails off but on a ko3 they don't gain any power after 6500, they lose power between 6500 and 7000 as shown in that last graph that was posted.


Who's was the ed30 that made 265? That really is low! 

Saint Steve

  • Guest
Re: Power from a stage 1 map? Possibly more than you would think!
« Reply #71 on: September 07, 2010, 09:00:58 pm »
Hedges old Edition 30 on Jkm's accurate rollers ;) made 265bhp and 280ish lb ft from memory.

Offline PDT

  • Just look at my post count
  • ******
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 3
  • -Receive: 142
  • Posts: 2010
    • Email
Re: Power from a stage 1 map? Possibly more than you would think!
« Reply #72 on: September 07, 2010, 09:03:54 pm »


Your not wrong when it comes to stock mapping for the LDR scales to 6800rpm with a load request of 100.078%(ie not much boost) NA  the major tail off come in 6600rpm when the load drops from 140.0156% at 6200rpm to 114.0%.  To get a good power reading over 6400rpm and to get the car pulling over 7k the maps need to be fully rescaled and done right the car will make good power close on 8000rpm


Have you tested this theory? If so any chance of a copy of the software? Any guinea pigs :evilgrin:

Offline gobbleplease

  • Just look at my post count
  • ******
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 64
  • -Receive: 48
  • Posts: 1094
Re: Power from a stage 1 map? Possibly more than you would think!
« Reply #73 on: September 07, 2010, 09:07:37 pm »
You were saying that giac was one of the best stage 1 maps out there, have you had any k03 giac stage 2+type maps on the dyno yet, im really impressed with mine. Ive not had it on the rollers but my in gear times ect ect dont seem to be too far away from the K04 guys even though i should be making about 50bhp less.

very good figures from your map though, its good to see more custom maps being offered, i had had a custom map on my 1.8T from star a few years ago and it was noticably quicker than the oposition.
MK5 EDITION 30 - CW - REVO S2+ - GONE BUT NOT FORGOTTEN

MK7 GTI - ARRIVING DECEMBER

MK2 GTI - RB - 1.8T - GARAGE QUEEN

Offline PDT

  • Just look at my post count
  • ******
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 3
  • -Receive: 142
  • Posts: 2010
    • Email
Re: Power from a stage 1 map? Possibly more than you would think!
« Reply #74 on: September 07, 2010, 09:08:35 pm »
Hedges old Edition 30 on Jkm's accurate rollers ;) made 265bhp and 280ish lb ft from memory.


The biggest benefit of DD rollers is that they will all make very similar figures, I am yet to see an ed30 on stage 1 make less than 290hp and 300ft/lb  was it tested in standard form also? Any explanation for the low figures, would be good to know the REVO settings also.

As for the logs people have asked for, I am tuning another KO3 soon, are there any particular parameters you want me to measure other than the usuals? Will gladly post them up :happy2: