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Author Topic: Blue Bullet DRL - Version 2 (OEM Style)  (Read 27978 times)

Offline Teutonic_Tamer

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Re: Blue Bullet DRL - Version 2 (OEM Style)
« Reply #90 on: September 01, 2010, 06:27:27 pm »
Quick update - the advice I gave regarding connecting the yellow DRL wire to the yellow/black on the car was based on the car with ignition on / engine off.

I fitted the DRLs today and wired them as mentioned previously and noticed that having the engine running gave a slightly different result.  The next six pics are:

6. Engine on / main lights

Spot the difference between 3 and 6....with the engine running, when switching on the main beam, the DRL goes dim instead of going completely off.  Not sure if I prefer this or not.  I may get the multimeter out and test things again but with the engine running this time  :ashamed: However, I'd be interested to hear opinions - DRLs dimmed with main beam or off???

6.


I likey!  :happy2:  :happy2:
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Offline Teutonic_Tamer

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Re: Blue Bullet DRL - Version 2 (OEM Style)
« Reply #91 on: September 01, 2010, 06:35:39 pm »
^^^^
In my opinion, all other lights should go off when DRL's are on.
Sadly Robin, that is just your opinion - and not the law!
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Offline Teutonic_Tamer

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Re: Blue Bullet DRL - Version 2 (OEM Style)
« Reply #92 on: September 01, 2010, 06:49:00 pm »
TT as good as you are i doubt you know the Road Legalities of EVERY country on the planet.

In RR defence he did say "in some countries" and cars are set up differently depending on the market :happy2:
Erm - when, specifically, did I state my knowledge of road laws in every country?

I didn't - and I, just like RedRobin, am ONLY referring to road laws applicable in the UK as set down in the European Parliament - so kindly refrain from trying to fudge my stance, whilst defending Robins nigh-on identical stance!  Thanks.  :smiley:
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Offline vRS Carl

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Re: Blue Bullet DRL - Version 2 (OEM Style)
« Reply #93 on: September 01, 2010, 07:44:12 pm »
TT as good as you are i doubt you know the Road Legalities of EVERY country on the planet.

In RR defence he did say "in some countries" and cars are set up differently depending on the market :happy2:
Erm - when, specifically, did I state my knowledge of road laws in every country?

I didn't - and I, just like RedRobin, am ONLY referring to road laws applicable in the UK as set down in the European Parliament - so kindly refrain from trying to fudge my stance, whilst defending Robins nigh-on identical stance!  Thanks.  :smiley:

Erm if i highlight the appropriate areas does that help.

^^^^
In some countries, the legal requirement (either proposed or established) is for DRL's to be switched off whenever other lights are switched on.

You keep on posting this tosh.

There is catgorically NO legal requirement for the DRLs to be compulsorily switched off when other lights are switched on.  If it were as you claim, every Audi with DRLs would be breaking the law!

So that statement reads that there is No legal requirement in ANY country considering RR stated what he did and you debunked.

As good as i am im not a mind reader. I know there an no legalities over the issue in the UK i did enough research before installing mine.

So i wasn't trying to fudge your stance as you put it. I was basing my comment on what you wrote and RR wrote :drinking:

Offline vRS Carl

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Re: Blue Bullet DRL - Version 2 (OEM Style)
« Reply #94 on: September 01, 2010, 07:59:59 pm »
It's pointless having LED DRL's on at night because they're what's called a passive light and hardly illuminate the road.

Robin I disagree with you there.
Forgive me, but I think you may have misunderstood the Red leader.  I think Red was trying to state that DRLs are NOT intended to illuminate the road ahead, DRLs are simply to attract attention from other road users - similar say to strobe lighting on aircraft.


I knew that was just pointing out that an LED Light Source can be used to illuminate rather than attract attention


My DRL's give quite a lot of light actually and light up the area immediately to the front of the car quite well.
That may be the case - but they wont (or shouldn't) throw a 'beam' of light down the road similar to either a conventional dipped beam, a conventional fog lamp, or a conventional main beam.  Basically, you couldn't drive down a pitch black road at night with only your DRLs - and successfully navigate in the same proficient mannner as you would with headlamps.


Correct i couldn't but there again if i use my NVG's  :evilgrin:


Also LED can't be that bad considering the R8 V10 has LED headlights.
Yes, agreed.  But those all-LED headlamps were painstakingly designed (it actually took them longer than they planned - rumour has it they were initially wanting them to go on the R8 V8 when it was first launched).  And from the early mixed feedback, they arnt as good as the Xenons!


Having seen them against the R8 V8 HID's there is no discernable difference to the Naked eye of light output.


From what I have been reading lately manufacturers are starting to do more research into LED technology as they can get more light for less power than halogen or HID.
LEDs can certainly be better than tungsten and even halogen - which is why they are becoming common in tail lights.  The jury is still out on the LED vs HID arguement - yes, LEDs will consume less power than the 35 watt HID capsule - but in the R8 application, don't they need sommat like 130 separate LEDs to match the lumen output of a single HID?  And the beam pattern of LEDs is considerably more difficult to engineer into a usable forward 'beam' (this was what took Audi so long to achieve).

Nope they Use 4 LED's for the Main Beam

14 LED for the Low Beam (No i haven't got them the wrong way round)

8 Yellow for Indicators

24 LED for DRL

See Here:

R8 LED Headlights


Also you say it's more difficult to direct the beam  :confused: I am confused because all the work that we do in my job with various companies who provide us with light sources (majority of which are LED these days) it's very easy to get the beam exactly how you want it. But im not a lighting engineer so maybe it's different for car headlights.
« Last Edit: September 01, 2010, 08:01:37 pm by vRS Carl »

Offline Teutonic_Tamer

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Re: Blue Bullet DRL - Version 2 (OEM Style)
« Reply #95 on: September 01, 2010, 08:13:09 pm »
TT as good as you are i doubt you know the Road Legalities of EVERY country on the planet.

In RR defence he did say "in some countries" and cars are set up differently depending on the market :happy2:
Erm - when, specifically, did I state my knowledge of road laws in every country?

I didn't - and I, just like RedRobin, am ONLY referring to road laws applicable in the UK as set down in the European Parliament - so kindly refrain from trying to fudge my stance, whilst defending Robins nigh-on identical stance!  Thanks.  :smiley:

Erm if i highlight the appropriate areas does that help.

^^^^
In some countries, the legal requirement (either proposed or established) is for DRL's to be switched off whenever other lights are switched on.

You keep on posting this tosh.

There is catgorically NO legal requirement for the DRLs to be compulsorily switched off when other lights are switched on.  If it were as you claim, every Audi with DRLs would be breaking the law!

So that statement reads that there is No legal requirement in ANY country considering RR stated what he did and you debunked.

As good as i am im not a mind reader. I know there an no legalities over the issue in the UK i did enough research before installing mine.

So i wasn't trying to fudge your stance as you put it. I was basing my comment on what you wrote and RR wrote :drinking:

Yes, yes, fairy-nuff.  However, being as myself, RR, your good self, and no doubt other forum members will ONLY be using their cars in either the UK and/or mainland Europe - then I personally reckon it is unreasonable to drag in some potential law (or not) from Outer Mongolia, Turkmenistan, or Antarctica (and NOOOO - before you ask, I know cock all about their regs!) - we should just try and stick to the salient facts about what is relevent in the UK and EU, whilst maybe offering a passing reference to say North American differences (which would be valid, bearing in mind the US based sites like Vortex and GolfMkv.com).
Sean - Independant Automotive Engineering Technician (ret'd)
------
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Offline Teutonic_Tamer

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Re: Blue Bullet DRL - Version 2 (OEM Style)
« Reply #96 on: September 01, 2010, 08:39:29 pm »
It's pointless having LED DRL's on at night because they're what's called a passive light and hardly illuminate the road.

Robin I disagree with you there.
Forgive me, but I think you may have misunderstood the Red leader.  I think Red was trying to state that DRLs are NOT intended to illuminate the road ahead, DRLs are simply to attract attention from other road users - similar say to strobe lighting on aircraft.


I knew that was just pointing out that an LED Light Source can be used to illuminate rather than attract attention
Ho kay.  :smiley: :happy2:


My DRL's give quite a lot of light actually and light up the area immediately to the front of the car quite well.
That may be the case - but they wont (or shouldn't) throw a 'beam' of light down the road similar to either a conventional dipped beam, a conventional fog lamp, or a conventional main beam.  Basically, you couldn't drive down a pitch black road at night with only your DRLs - and successfully navigate in the same proficient mannner as you would with headlamps.

Correct i couldn't but there again if i use my NVG's  :evilgrin:
Got a secret stash to share?  :evilgrin:



Also LED can't be that bad considering the R8 V10 has LED headlights.
Yes, agreed.  But those all-LED headlamps were painstakingly designed (it actually took them longer than they planned - rumour has it they were initially wanting them to go on the R8 V8 when it was first launched).  And from the early mixed feedback, they arnt as good as the Xenons!
Having seen them against the R8 V8 HID's there is no discernable difference to the Naked eye of light output.
It wasn't the actual intensity of the light output - ie, the measure of lumens, which was the problem.  It was actually trying to correctly focus the light output from the LEDs into a satisfactory 'beam' which can be appropriately measured (you must have seen the distinct shaped of a dipped headlamp beam on your garage door or similar), AND the ability to adjust said beam level to cope with differing vehicle loads (the dash-mounted thumbwheel to manually level halogens, or the automatic self leveling of HIDs - for when you have a couple of fat burds in the back).



From what I have been reading lately manufacturers are starting to do more research into LED technology as they can get more light for less power than halogen or HID.
LEDs can certainly be better than tungsten and even halogen - which is why they are becoming common in tail lights.  The jury is still out on the LED vs HID arguement - yes, LEDs will consume less power than the 35 watt HID capsule - but in the R8 application, don't they need sommat like 130 separate LEDs to match the lumen output of a single HID?  And the beam pattern of LEDs is considerably more difficult to engineer into a usable forward 'beam' (this was what took Audi so long to achieve).

Nope they Use 4 LED's for the Main Beam

14 LED for the Low Beam (No i haven't got them the wrong way round)

8 Yellow for Indicators

24 LED for DRL

See Here:

R8 LED Headlights
I'm not too sure how acurate that WCF article is.  My stealer told me there were sommat like 130 per headlamp housing, and I have had a close look at an R8 V10 - and yes, there are only 4 monster LEDs for the main beam, there looked to be considerably more for the dipped beam - unless it was the internal reflector playing trickery!


Also you say it's more difficult to direct the beam  :confused: I am confused because all the work that we do in my job with various companies who provide us with light sources (majority of which are LED these days) it's very easy to get the beam exactly how you want it. But im not a lighting engineer so maybe it's different for car headlights.
OK, if you look very carefully at a naked LED (not one which has its usual clear plastic dome attached), an LED emits light from basically a flat surface, ie, in a single plane.  Other light sources, be they tungsten filament or a HID capsule, they emit light in all directions and in all planes - in three dimensions if you will.  Therefore, filament and HID generated light is considerably easy to 'reflect' or 'difuse' into an appropriate beam pattern, whereas surface emitting LEDs are considerably more difficult.  Being as modern headlamps now only use plastic outer lenses/covers, the 'difusion' method of generating a beam (see old headlamps with glass outer lenses - with all their internal ridges in the glass), the only available method of generating a beam is reflection.  Now, look side on at a tungsten or HID headlamp - the light source is always infront of a reflector, and the light is 'collected' from a rearwards 180degree angle (and either focussed through a fish-eye projector lens [HID], or just passed through the outer plastic lens [filament]).  You can't do this with LEDs - you basically need to 're-invent the wheel' to get LED light output into a focus-able and definable beam pattern.


Oh, and another snippet of useful info - because the pattern of the light beam is now only generated by reflection and not diffusion, this explains the prevalence of headlamp washers on cars with plastic outer headlamp covers - and why it is also vital for HIDs to have washers.  Because any cr@p on the outer plastic will difuse the beam beyond its normal design parameters.
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Offline RedRobin

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Re: Blue Bullet DRL - Version 2 (OEM Style)
« Reply #97 on: September 02, 2010, 07:04:31 pm »
^^^^
When I wrote:

"In some countries, the legal requirement (either proposed or established) is for DRL's to be switched off whenever other lights are switched on."

I posted this "tosh" because I read it somewhere in many many pages of consultive documents and commissioned studies into the subject of DRL's from various countries in Europe including Scandinavia and also with some reference to America. I wish I had made a note of which docs so I could quote my sources exactly. But the point is that I read it in professional study documents and not just chat on an internet forum. I can only post information which I believe to the best of my ability to be true.


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Offline RedRobin

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Re: Blue Bullet DRL - Version 2 (OEM Style)
« Reply #98 on: September 02, 2010, 07:15:54 pm »

I can see why folks may be confused with your DRLs, Robin but I guess getting seen (for all the right reasons) is what it's all about. I was reading about some anti-DRL campaign where one of their main arguments was that DRLs take away from other road users, like motorbikes, who use their lights to get themselves seen. Personally, I don't buy that - I would rather see both and can't see how a DRL on a car would 'reduce' the visibility of a motorbike.


....In one of the many studies I read, surveys in the UK in particular, noted that when DRL's are either in headlight format or at headlight level above the ground, they can conceal the single headlight of a motorbike in front. I think you'll find that this is why bikers are against them. I can see their reasoning and agree.

This is also why I'm personally against DRL's unless they are at lower level or in LED strip format (Audi style) so they are more difficult to confuse.

Additionally, this is also why I am in favour of DRL's being switched off when other lights are switched on < This was an aspect of my DRL's which carried a lot of weight in my favour when I was very politely challenged by the UK Police. But that might be down to the individual policeman/woman.


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Offline Blade

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Re: Blue Bullet DRL - Version 2 (OEM Style)
« Reply #99 on: September 20, 2010, 09:01:07 pm »
So......i have quickly read through this very interesting thread and still would appreciate a pointer as to whether i should have the DRL,s swith off on main beam. I currently have them on all the time but could easily wire them up to swith off either on side lights or main Xenon,s.  I don,t want to get fined but then again i like the look of them with my main lights on.


Offline vRS Carl

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Re: Blue Bullet DRL - Version 2 (OEM Style)
« Reply #100 on: September 20, 2010, 09:21:12 pm »
I run them the same as you have there and have had no problems and I do a lot of work with the Fuhrer  :smiley:

Offline Blade

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Re: Blue Bullet DRL - Version 2 (OEM Style)
« Reply #101 on: September 20, 2010, 09:38:10 pm »
Nice one Carl. I think for my own piece of mind i will wire them up to go off with main lights but stay on with side lights.