Experienced Modders - would you agree with this direction to take car in?

[djhorace]

once you have your 350bhp, you soon see what other parts need to be upgraded to cope  

To be honest, I would agree with this. Whats the point of putting on mountain climbing boots to climb a hill unless you know you need them? How many people actually properly get the good of all the components they buy? I know I threw cash at my last car, and I am really not convinced some of the components were worth doing - specifically the Anti Roll Bars and Anti Lift Kit.

Having said that, I would probably look at component longevity over anything else if working within a budget. Higher power and torque will move the engine around severely and cause more severe wheel hop which will break downpipes, damage driveshafts, see the flywheel bang itself a lot inside the gearbox and do other suspension/drivetrain components no good. In addition, standard shocks and springs will see the car lean around enough to cause more traction/braking issues. Hence my thoughts on engine mounts and springs/shocks upgrades.
 
If you want to to track work, then look at anti roll bars, LSD's, uprated brakes, anti lift kits etc etc.

[RedRobin]

once you have your 350bhp, you soon see what other parts need to be upgraded to cope 

To be honest, I would agree with this. Whats the point of putting on mountain climbing boots to climb a hill unless you know you need them? How many people actually properly get the good of all the components they buy? I know I threw cash at my last car, and I am really not convinced some of the components were worth doing - specifically the Anti Roll Bars and Anti Lift Kit.

Having said that, I would probably look at component longevity over anything else if working within a budget. Higher power and torque will move the engine around severely and cause more severe wheel hop which will break downpipes, damage driveshafts, see the flywheel bang itself a lot inside the gearbox and do other suspension/drivetrain components no good. In addition, standard shocks and springs will see the car lean around enough to cause more traction/braking issues. Hence my thoughts on engine mounts and springs/shocks upgrades.
 
If you want to to track work, then look at anti roll bars, LSD's, uprated brakes, anti lift kits etc etc.

....I don't agree with you. It's asking for problems if you up the power to then discover what other upgrades you need - When? When they present themselves as problems? Oops, my engine keeps cutting out, I need an upgraded fuel pump, for example. What you're advising doesn't make good sense IMO.

Neither do I agree that you only need to improve the handling if you're doing track days. Anti-roll bars are a great improvement for fast road use unless you enjoy lurching around when driving enthusiastically. Even 200 bhp is a fair amount of power for FWD, so you need all the help you can get. 350 bhp on an otherwise standard car is frankly stupid - You want safe driveability.

Handling mods first, power mods second.

[djhorace]

....I don't agree with you. It's asking for problems if you up the power to then discover what other upgrades you need - When? When they present themselves as problems? Oops, my engine keeps cutting out, I need an upgraded fuel pump, for example. What you're advising doesn't make good sense IMO.

Neither do I agree that you only need to improve the handling if you're doing track days. Anti-roll bars are a great improvement for fast road use unless you enjoy lurching around when driving enthusiastically. Even 200 bhp is a fair amount of power for FWD, so you need all the help you can get. 350 bhp on an otherwise standard car is frankly stupid - You want safe driveability.

Handling mods first, power mods second.

Power mods would include a fuel pump though Robin. My opinion on Anti Roll Bars are the opposite of others - they are the last thing someone should change especially on a road car. They make no difference for use on the road - I was every bit as quick round bends in my old car with stock and uprated anti roll bars.

Power first, and make your mind up what you need at that point, but be aware that things can break with standard parts fitted with big power.

[RedRobin]

Power mods would include a fuel pump though Robin. My opinion on Anti Roll Bars are the opposite of others - they are the last thing someone should change especially on a road car. They make no difference for use on the road - I was every bit as quick round bends in my old car with stock and uprated anti roll bars.

Power first, and make your mind up what you need at that point, but be aware that things can break with standard parts fitted with big power.

....The fact that "things can break with standard parts fitted with big power", as you said, is exactly why it's not wise to go for big power first.

The point about ARB's is that they increase your car's stability which in turn results in safer braking (less nose dive etc) and improved grip in corners. They make every bit of difference on the road even on a standard car. I'm by no means the only person to know this. It's well established as a good value mod.

Whatever mods are considered, it's a slippery slope!

[vRS Carl]

For once I completely agree with you RR

As I said in a previous post "power is nothing without control". The Mk5/Cupra/Octavia Chassis is not exactly the best out there.

If anything then you should get driving lessons to learn to control a car at speed. This will be by far the best "Handling/Power" mod you can do. At least then you will be able to safely control the power you have available rather than running out of skill with a 350bhp car on 200bhp suspension and brakes and hoping they cope

But each to their own opinion.

To the OP - what I would suggest is take everyone's advice with a pinch of salt (mine included). Use it to make an informed decision that ultimately you are happy with. At the end of the day it's your hard earned cash your going to spend, its you that has to drive the car every day so its you that has to be happy with the route you choose. It has to be YOUR decision

[RedRobin]

^^^^
And I completely agree with you, Carl - Especially about remapping your brain by doing a professional driving course. 

[vRS Carl]

My opinion on Anti Roll Bars are the opposite of others - they are the last thing someone should change especially on a road car. They make no difference for use on the road - I was every bit as quick round bends in my old car with stock and uprated anti roll bars.

Sorry but that is a load of Carp in my opinion. I would suggest the problem was in the drivers seat and not the Bars. If they are set up right the they keep the car flatter in corners and depending on which you have set the stiffest will help control the understeer or oversteer.

[djhorace]

....The fact that "things can break with standard parts fitted with big power", as you said, is exactly why it's not wise to go for big power first.

The point about ARB's is that they increase your car's stability which in turn results in safer braking (less nose dive etc) and improved grip in corners. They make every bit of difference on the road even on a standard car. I'm by no means the only person to know this. It's well established as a good value mod.

Whatever mods are considered, it's a slippery slope!

Hence why I mentioned the uprated mounts - they are the main thing needed to stop any breakages. Anti Roll Bars are much less necessary than uprated shocks and springs. Accelarating/Decelarating movements are not affected by Anti Roll Bars by the way - they are designed to stop roll in bends. Also, grip has a lot more to do with tyres than ARB's.

For what its worth, when I fitted the Autotech ARB's to my car, it went against the grain to do so. Steve at Statllers advised against them, and the WALK. I ignored him, but in hindsight, I know he was right now. Waste of cash.

[djhorace]

My opinion on Anti Roll Bars are the opposite of others - they are the last thing someone should change especially on a road car. They make no difference for use on the road - I was every bit as quick round bends in my old car with stock and uprated anti roll bars.

Sorry but that is a load of Carp in my opinion. I would suggest the problem was in the drivers seat and not the Bars. If they are set up right the they keep the car flatter in corners and depending on which you have set the stiffest will help control the understeer or oversteer.

Pretty bold statement from someone who does not know me from the next person lad. Pretty sure if you ask a few people that know me, there is no issue on the drivers seat. I managed to leave some Exiges on a short figure 8 track with nothing other than stage 1 and Eibach pro kit springs on my car ;)

My car was set up with quite a lot of decent stuff and I never hung around. Tyres make a lot more difference to cornering than any anti roll bar ever could. I used Autotech adjustable ARB's by the way and adjusted them in a lot of different ways.

[vRS Carl]

That was actually a sarcastic comment I made  . But it's a pretty bold statement to say a proven mod makes no difference with the only evidence being YOUR experience.

I agree that Tyres will make a lot of difference. But so do ARB's to a standard car.

Unless you have been professionally trained to drive quick then you will not be as good as you think. Just because you managed to leave a few Exiges on a short figure 8 track doesn't make you Lewis Hamilton. Maybe the drivers of said cars weren't as adept or confident as you. Track Driving is completely different to fast road driving I used to think I was the bees knees at driving. I then went and did police driver training followed by 4 months of other job specific high speed driver training and I was shocked at just how bad I was and found my perception of my "skill" was over inflated due to modern suspension, ESP, ABS, TCS etc etc.

[rich83]

So if ARBs dont do anything... what mod would you suggest to reduce understeer and body roll?

[djhorace]

So if ARBs dont do anything... what mod would you suggest to reduce understeer and body roll?

A car with a better chassis to start with - new Megane for example.

[rich83]

So if ARBs dont do anything... what mod would you suggest to reduce understeer and body roll?

A car with a better chassis to start with - new Megane for example.

in that case i'll stick with the body roll......

[vRS Carl]

So if ARBs dont do anything... what mod would you suggest to reduce understeer and body roll?

A car with a better chassis to start with - new Megane for example.

in that case i'll stick with the body roll......

 

[djhorace]

That was actually a sarcastic comment I made  . But it's a pretty bold statement to say a proven mod makes no difference with the only evidence being YOUR experience.

I agree that Tyres will make a lot of difference. But so do ARB's to a standard car.

Unless you have been professionally trained to drive quick then you will not be as good as you think. Just because you managed to leave a few Exiges on a short figure 8 track doesn't make you Lewis Hamilton. Maybe the drivers of said cars weren't as adept or confident as you. Track Driving is completely different to fast road driving I used to think I was the bees knees at driving. I then went and did police driver training followed by 4 months of other job specific high speed driver training and I was shocked at just how bad I was and found my perception of my "skill" was over inflated due to modern suspension, ESP, ABS, TCS etc etc.

Not professing to be any kind of professional racing driver (although I do have a wee collection of trophies for karting, one for motorbikes and a couple for car racing as it happens), but my point is that Anti Roll Bars, in my experience, and that of other people I know, is the opposite of what you guys are making them out to be. This particular day had a fair old selection of exotica, and the Lotus were being driven rather quickly as it happens to the point of mixing with track day Evo's/Subaru's with over 400+ bhp and the ability to put down power. The biggest issue I had when I did this was wheelspin which I am sure would have been cured by a LSD and some 888's. Yes, ARB's may have helped, but not to the extent decent springs and shocks would have.