AP Racing vs VW Racing Brakes

[laurent.d]

I made a mistake choosing the size of my 328-4 pots Brembo brake and they are a bit to small for track use with 300HP revo Engine remap.

As Brembo are over priced, I am considering 355-6 pots VW Racing Brakes as I was pleased with my experience with VWR or AP Racing 355-6 pots S3 kit.

Does any body who use them on track can gives me some advises?

Thanks

[Janner_Sy]

id bet that 328 discs are more than adequate.  what pads/brake fluid are you using though.  On what basis do you think the 328mm discs are inadequate?

[DaveB@Vagbremtechnic]

Contact GobblePlease on here got the best brakes ever fitted to a Mk5 for sale soon......

330mm discs on a CP3215 50mm high pad.....

As fitted to a 450bhp 6R4 with uprated brakes..........

Will be significantly cheaper than a comparitively (to them) junior and unproven VWR setup.

330mm is very optimal on a mk5

[laurent.d]

I have my 328x28 brembo brakes for 17 000km now.

The brakes are awesome on road but on track I had many disapoitment.

After 7500 km of road use and enjoyment, I went on the Nürburgring and drove 4 laps.
Everything was right and the brakes awesome even if I had some little brake vibration afterward.
Then, afyter my way back my brakes had 10 000km and I discovered that my pads were almost wear out.
I thought I found out the explanation of vibrations.
I decided to buy new Brembo pads for my next Nürburgring trip.
So I break in my new pads during my 550km tripe to the Ring and then lap after lap get more and more vibrations.
After 14 laps the pads were already gone!!!!
It was a Sunday, and hopefully Digi’tech at Nürburg was open and sold me and fited new Carbotech pads on my car.
The vibrations were a little bit less but still there.

Get back to France, I called the workshop where I bought my brakes and Brembo French dealer and we find out that OE Brembo pads werre not strong enough for my use.
The pads have over heated, deposit uneven dust on the rotor and then uneven wear out that causes vibrations.
So I had to change the rotor, I took some slotted ones as drilled ones had already some cracks.
And I bought some Endurance Racing Yellow PAGID RS29 pads.
To be sure, I also made some brake ducting to avoid overheating.

So now, everything almost fine with my brakes (but I style have some vibration at Adenau) except that I wasted some money because of Brembo pads and that I wonder if, as I go faster and faster around the Ring and I will may be need soon to fit semi slicks tyres, it was a good idea to take the medium brakes size and not the bigger one. I have to recognise that I under estimated the need of big brakes. And that for this time, bigger should be better.
That's why I'm considering 355 VWR or AP brakes.

[tony_danza]

328x28 is, in my opinion, too small a disc to cope with what you need. The Brembo calipers used in their road kits aren't the best either.

I had the Alcon 343x32 4-pot kit, it was exceptional. Replacement rotors/pads/parts all much cheaper than most other kits and very well made. I would choose Alcon every time for any car I have from now on. You can spec the TT 360/6-pot kit, but I felt it was a bit too powerful for me. Link to show what you need, however they can be bought cheaper in France maybe?

3MO Performance
France
Tel. +33 (0)2 43 532 939

Danielson Equipement
France
Tel. +33 (0)3 86 212 255

JL Marin Racing
France
Tel. +33 (0)4 50 324 139

Oreca Diffusion
France
Tel. +33 (0)825 325 425

I think I would choose the AP kit over the VWR kit, simply because the pad choice is greater and it'll be easier to get spares. Lots of places sell AP, only VWR sell VWR and they have been known to be a bit poor when it comes to service. That said, they do have a 1-race used set for sale very cheaply. Link

[laurent.d]

I'm surprised about what you write about VWR service as I had a very good experience with them.

[MK1Campaign]

The VWR kit is made by Caparo(AP Racing)

[DaveB@Vagbremtechnic]

The AP stuff is very hardcore, and weighs the same as a bag of maltesers, anything 350mm+ and 32mm thick+ will weigh twice as much as a 330x28

330x28 pro 5000 setup with some ducting would be unbeatable, Bryan's setup also comes with some RS4-2 Blues

I think I got caliper/carrier/pad/disc/bell/fittings to under 10kg per corner - awesome

Caparo is Caparo - AP Racing is AP Racing - Brembo is Ap Racing

[MK1Campaign]

http://www.caparoapbraking.com/about/about-us.asp

[tony_danza]

I'm surprised about what you write about VWR service as I had a very good experience with them.

They've always been helpful to me too, but others have had issues. It's got to be a consideration given you're so far away and you've no other choice if you have a problem with VWR.

[luckyGti]

The AP stuff is very hardcore, and weighs the same as a bag of maltesers, anything 350mm+ and 32mm thick+ will weigh twice as much as a 330x28

330x28 pro 5000 setup with some ducting would be unbeatable, Bryan's setup also comes with some RS4-2 Blues

I think I got caliper/carrier/pad/disc/bell/fittings to under 10kg per corner - awesome

Caparo is Caparo - AP Racing is AP Racing - Brembo is Ap Racing

Out of curiosity where would you run the ducting from to the pro 5000's, I presume it would be via a set of open fog grills? Is the major modification needed to set the ducting up and what type of ducting would you run? Thank you

[DaveB@Vagbremtechnic]

http://www.caparoapbraking.com/about/about-us.asp

AP Caparo = AP Caparo (ex lockheed). AP Racing of Coventry is a different company albeit ultimately owned by Brembo the AP bit is a red herring.

[tony_danza]

The AP stuff is very hardcore, and weighs the same as a bag of maltesers, anything 350mm+ and 32mm thick+ will weigh twice as much as a 330x28

330x28 pro 5000 setup with some ducting would be unbeatable, Bryan's setup also comes with some RS4-2 Blues

I think I got caliper/carrier/pad/disc/bell/fittings to under 10kg per corner - awesome

Caparo is Caparo - AP Racing is AP Racing - Brembo is Ap Racing

Out of curiosity where would you run the ducting from to the pro 5000's, I presume it would be via a set of open fog grills? Is the major modification needed to set the ducting up and what type of ducting would you run? Thank you

Open grilles, or a holesaw on the normal ones with a venturi.
Run through the inside of the engine bay (zip tying to the liner) and exit the arch liner opposite the forward wishbone leg
Route over the wishbone.
Remove or modify the splash shield, point duct to centre of disc, not the friction face.

Use joints at the the arch liner, as a 90degree bend will rub through a pipe. Also, use metal zip ties near heat sources.

I'd also recommend anti-crush sprung neoprene hose.

[laurent.d]

The AP stuff is very hardcore, and weighs the same as a bag of maltesers, anything 350mm+ and 32mm thick+ will weigh twice as much as a 330x28

330x28 pro 5000 setup with some ducting would be unbeatable, Bryan's setup also comes with some RS4-2 Blues

I think I got caliper/carrier/pad/disc/bell/fittings to under 10kg per corner - awesome

Caparo is Caparo - AP Racing is AP Racing - Brembo is Ap Racing

When you mean AP stuff, you mean AP Racing or AP Caparo?

Pro 5000 caliper are  (without pads) about 2,5 kg for 4 pots and 3,5 kg for 6 pots
330x32 and 356x32 are about  (without pads) 6,5 kg

A complete weight per side for a VWR Brake assembly is 11.96kg per side (disc and bell weight 7.04kg, and the caliper weighs 4.92kg) I don't know if caliper weight include pads and bracket or not.

So I assume that full ( rotors, bells, calipers, pads, bracket) brakes weight are very close to each other.

The problème with PRO 5000 is that you have to chose the calipers the rotors and moreover what about rotor bell and caliper mounting bracket specification?
How do you manage it?

I'm surprised about what you write about VWR service as I had a very good experience with them.

They've always been helpful to me too, but others have had issues. It's got to be a consideration given you're so far away and you've no other choice if you have a problem with VWR.

I understand you, but I gave them my car one year ago for one month, they completly removed my drive train to fit a full K04 turbo kit and a Quaife LSD in my DSG gear box.
And I have no issue with it. It works brillantly after more than 10 000km.

So as VWR brake are made by AP CAPARO which is a big company, that brakes are pretty simple in term of number of parts. I don't realy worry about issue.

Moreover those brakes are used in VWR Cup so I can be sure they will handle my track use.

[vRSAlex]

Took a month to fit a K04 kit and a diff?!   Simon usually works fast!

I would still go for AP over anything else.  With regards to your Brembo setup, ive done AP discs on floating or fixed bells that work with those calipers.  Mate them with some pagid rs14's or similar and some srf fluid and they will be fine.

The main issue with the car is that even with esp off, the stupid esp can still apply the brakes to help with traction and slides.  All this does is over heat the brakes.