Make a donation

Author Topic: Visited a friend in France, and then.... saw where the SS visited in 1944.  (Read 4391 times)

Offline QD MBE

  • Just look at my post count
  • ******
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 15
  • -Receive: 102
  • Posts: 2497
As above,  I have just returned from France after visiting some friends.

We took the GF's A3 TDi and despite Mr Dunlops attempts to de-rail the whole trip, we arrived in one piece.  (Both front tyres developed Bulges in the sidewall - Correct pressure - 1000 miles old etc)

We managed to get 2 PS2's from a French tyre place for 200€ fitted - Bargain 225/40/18's!  he was selling cheap in order to fully stock the PS3 and the new sport tyre.

The weather was lovely, we left the UK at -2/+2 and when we arrived in the SW region of France it was +12, and had been getting warmer all the way.  We spent a week with my friends and left yesterday morning and took a detour to visit a village called Oradour-Sur-Glanes.

The SS Panzer Division visited the village in June 1944, and when they left 6 hours later 642 people were dead.

I cannot express the feeling of the place, it has been left as it was in 1944, as a memorial to the dead.  Sewing machines are still on tables, cars parked in court-yards, Bicycles hanging on walls, Tables and chairs litter the houses.  The most poignant building was the Church, or what was left of it.

The SS herded all the women and children, and held them there, until they shot them, and set the place alight.  The men were still alive at this point, having been shot in the legs, so they could not run etc, and so they could hear the women and children.

The village is NW of Limoges, and was virtually empty when we arrived.  I have tried to convey the despair of the place, and have tried to explain each photo.

The Post office is one of the first buildings you come to.  It was also the telephone switchboard.  M Odette Boulliere was held and killed here, after she had been made to ensure they could still use the switchboard (manual in those days)



Various cars like this are still in the driveways



Village Garage



Plaque in memorial to the Doctor and his son (his son was also a Doctor and was out on a call at the time, but arrived back during the massacre, he was stopped and when he was found to be from the village he was killed just like the rest - he apparently tried to escape by giving his residence as another village, but was found out - only important people drove cars in those days.)





Doctors sons car, still where it was stopped by the SS in the village square, the road it was on leads out of the village and away from the troops.  The Desourteaux family was very well known and respected in the local community as pillars of the establishment. This theme of service to the community was continuing today on the 10th June, as the Mayor's son Jacques, also a Doctor like his father and great-grandfather before him was out of town visiting a patient when the SS arrived.



Village forge, with anvil and vice.



Village well, some bodies were found in the well.

All below are of the church.



^^^^  Bullet holes.



Confession box.







Below are the Barbers shop including tables and chairs, and bright tiling.







The only glass left intact in the whole village was in a stable block, because the SS were using it as a billet, and it is still intact.



General pics.










The experience of visiting the village has left me wanting to find out more.  I only saw it on a history programme whilst snoozing off several pints of Cider.  So glad I paid my respects.

Offline markymark

  • Just look at my post count
  • ******
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 21
  • -Receive: 55
  • Posts: 2369
Thanks for sharing this pics! Looks a very interesting place QD, I didnt know such a place existed but its good to see it has been left un-touched. I would be very interested to go there one day, pics are great at capturing so much but nothing like the actual atmosphere of being there.
I visted Auschwitz about 4-5 years ago...such a sobering place, atmosphere like ive never felt before. :sad1:

Offline danishmkvgti

  • Just look at my post count
  • ******
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 243
  • -Receive: 154
  • Posts: 3680
    • Email
  • My Ride: http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,7823.0.html
The background (short version):

The 2nd SS Panzerdivision Das Reich situated in the south of France gets march orders to go to Normandie as the allies has just landed there. On their way up north they are constanty being attacked by the french resistance so as a revenge the do the above action.
No SS person has ever admitted/acknowledged that SS had part in it. very sad chapter in the historybook  :sad1:
« Last Edit: January 05, 2011, 02:44:15 pm by danishmkvgti »

Over the top mod list ;o)

Offline RedRobin

  • Just look at my post count
  • ******
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 380
  • -Receive: 442
  • Posts: 16626
  • BIALI Motorsport's Chief Horn Blower
.
I presume that the SS carried out such atrocities to that specific village for some reason? I'm not suggesting that such atrocities can be justified (they never can be) but was it random? Was it to set an example?

One one hand I can see the right in leaving such monuments to remember the dead, but on the other hand it propogates hatred of the German people by the French. Leaving Auschwitz standing isn't going to stop similar things happening again.

I saw an interesting docu this week about Albert Goring, Hermann's brother, who risked his life many times to save large amounts of Jews and similar from Nazi death in WW2, and yet Albert was badly treated by The Allies and after the war in spite of his heroic actions. We are still waiting for Israel to simply acknowledge Albert as one of the saviours of their people.

All mankind, not just the SS, can be such sh!ts.

P.S. - Just read Jake's reply:

The background (short version):

The 2nd SS Panzerdivision Das Reich situated in the south of France gets march orders to go to Normandie as the allies has just landed there. On their way up north they are constanty being attacked by the french resistance so as a revenge the do the above action.

No SS person has ever admitted/acknowledged that SS had part in it. very sad chapter in the historybook  :sad1:


....My question answered  :happy2:


On facebook: https://www.facebook.com/robin.procter.50

Throbbin' Red Mk5 GTI DSG with too many mods to list - Have Fun but Safe Journeys!

Offline GTIjames

  • Won't Shut up.
  • *****
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 6
  • -Receive: 6
  • Posts: 536
very interesting reading and photo's dave,

unfortunately no lessons seem to have been learnt as history is littered with similar incidents.. just look at what the yanks did in My Lai, Vietnam
GTI Edition 30 - Reflex Silver now gone but not forgotten - Cooper S JCW now.

Offline Gene Hunt

  • Just look at my post count
  • ******
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 59
  • -Receive: 61
  • Posts: 2478
    • Email
very interesting reading and photo's dave,

unfortunately no lessons seem to have been learnt as history is littered with similar incidents.. just look at what the yanks did in My Lai, Vietnam
........as above.Thanks for those.
ED35. Standard factory condition.

psw mk5

  • Guest
Very moving story and great pics just shown my 14yo daughter and she was deffo moved... It's good to show young uns history like this -- shows where we've come from and where we could have been  :notworthy: on a positive note they do make nice cars  :popcornsoda:

Offline JJ

  • Always Involved
  • ****
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 6
  • -Receive: 5
  • Posts: 215
Very poignant.  More history here: http://www.oradour.info/

Offline hammyhammer

  • Always Involved
  • ****
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 22
  • -Receive: 4
  • Posts: 101
My wife and I went there 18 months ago.  It is very humbling experience and really makes your hairs stand up on the back of your neck.

What is weird that the place is totally silent as birds apprently do not congregate there.

Having also visited the d-day landing beaches, US cemetary and various items in the channel islands I think it is an essential these memorials are preserved as well as the learning experience espcially, as years go by the tales will not be passed down by grandparents/great grandparents to what life was like.

sadly like below as a world we do not seem to have be learning the lessons

Offline Sunglasses Ron

  • Just look at my post count
  • ******
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 11
  • -Receive: 15
  • Posts: 2067
    • Email
Very moving read that Dave.. Like Mark says, the atmosphere in a place like that must remain in your memory for a very long time.
Just shows you what the world was like back then.. Yet we moan when there's a 2.5% rise in VAT...  :confused:

Offline tony_danza

  • Just look at my post count
  • ******
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 3
  • -Receive: 112
  • Posts: 3013
  • The voice of objective reason, but mine's best.
Re: Visited a friend in France, and then.... saw where the SS visited in 1944.
« Reply #10 on: January 06, 2011, 10:07:31 am »
I'll have to look out for that next time I'm down there.

I visited Compiègne Forest last time I was on my way down the the South and that was both facinating and chilling. If you know your history, it is significant in both wars and shows the level of spite the Nazis were capable of.

Along with a replica of the railway carriage in the museum (the original burnt by the Nazis) they have a massive archive of 3D picture of both wars. These are very graphic and tell the whole story of both wars from invasion to end, I don't mind admitting I had tears in my eyes looking through them, they're really shocking.

Both my grandfathers would never talk about WWII, I'm guessing I will never fully understand why, but I can see how it will have stayed with them for life.
Sideways yo!

Offline joesgti

  • Just look at my post count
  • ******
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 8
  • -Receive: 35
  • Posts: 4855
  • Eat my sick, Eat my sick.
Re: Visited a friend in France, and then.... saw where the SS visited in 1944.
« Reply #11 on: January 06, 2011, 11:58:51 am »
My grandad never talked about the war either, but when he died my mum told me that he was a sniper and him and his mates got ambused and had to shoot their way out. He only told her when he was drunk one night. Maybe not true, but i like to believe it.


If you need any games consoles or games, accessories, etc etc, PM me for my best price,

Offline danishmkvgti

  • Just look at my post count
  • ******
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 243
  • -Receive: 154
  • Posts: 3680
    • Email
  • My Ride: http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,7823.0.html
Re: Visited a friend in France, and then.... saw where the SS visited in 1944.
« Reply #12 on: January 06, 2011, 12:44:18 pm »
I personally never knew my granddad but he was a danish sailor that in the start of the war had his merchantship sunk by zee germans, got caught, managed to escape captivity and fled to UK and fought under english command during the rest of the war.

Over the top mod list ;o)

Offline phil1975

  • Always Involved
  • ****
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 3
  • -Receive: 9
  • Posts: 183
  • 2011 Gti
    • Email
Re: Visited a friend in France, and then.... saw where the SS visited in 1944.
« Reply #13 on: January 06, 2011, 10:30:19 pm »
Excellent post I visited the village in november and was blown away by the place, it was torwards the end of a 3000 mile trip round europe encountering snow in germany and heavy rain the rest of the time. But the afternoon we arrived at oradour sur la glane the sun came out and it was a beautiful autumn day.

Hats off to the french for choosing to leave village as a memorial to those murdered, it would have been the easy option just to demolish it and rebuild. To build the new village ajacent to the ruins (you simply cross under the road to get from one to the other) seems to add something to the whole place.

I highly recommend a visit here not easy viewing, but important that we do not forget about such events.

For anybody interested in world war 2 history we also visited stalag luft III (scene of the great escape) in zagan in poland whilst on this trip and hitlers 'eagles nest' in berchtesgaden in germany and the mohane dam. Will start another post about these at the weekend with some pics not wanting to hijack this post.
Candy White 5 door mk6 gti  and a escort cosworth for wasting money on!!

Offline coullstar

  • Always Involved
  • ****
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 0
  • -Receive: 1
  • Posts: 50
    • Email
Re: Visited a friend in France, and then.... saw where the SS visited in 1944.
« Reply #14 on: January 06, 2011, 11:10:05 pm »
I visted Auschwitz about 4-5 years ago...such a sobering place, atmosphere like ive never felt before. :sad1:

Ditto, people need to visit these kind of places to really see what hard life is.  You will then realise you are very fortunate to have the life you do.