DSG hesitating on downshift

[LouCyffer]

Any ideas, guys?

I'm getting an intermittent hesitation when shifting down from 4th to 2nd. Road speed 30mph, slowing & approaching a junction or similar. Downshift on the paddles with a double click to 2nd. Often this will be no problem, but over the last couple of weeks I've sometimes found I'm waiting 1-2 seconds for the box to engage 2nd.

It's a bit of an issue when I'm swinging out of a junction or onto a roundabout.

Car is due an MOT on wednesday, & under warranty for a few more days (will extend it anyway). So I'll ask the stealer to have a look. I'll check VCDS this afternoon when I'm washing it.

In the meantime, any bright ideas?

[Saint Steve]

Is your car a 57/08 car lou?

Have you had the dsg box serviced yet?

You have vcds? perhaps its worth doing basic settings of the dsg if you do.Although ive never tried it.Perhaps maybe an error with the downshift paddle? although vcds will show an error if there is.

Or ask your dealer whilst in to investigate whilst your factory warrantys still valid?

[182_blue]

See what VCDS says, you could try a reset as you have VCDS http://wiki.ross-tech.com/wiki/index.php/6-Speed_Direct_Shift_Gearbox_%28DSG/02E%29

see what effect that has

[RedRobin]

Downshift on the paddles with a double click to 2nd. Often this will be no problem, but over the last couple of weeks I've sometimes found I'm waiting 1-2 seconds for the box to engage 2nd.

....Although you can double click to shift down 2 gears, the DSG box always has only one gear in instant readiness either side of that you're already in. So if you're in 4th the box will have 3rd and 5th simultaneously ready for your selection but not 2nd. By double clicking quickly you are forcing the action and I'm not surprised it's hesitant whether intermittently or regularly.

My advice would be to break your habit rather than possibly risk longer term stress on your DSG. Besides which, it's not a habit which is kind to your engine revs either. If you must do it, and I have done so several times myself but only in emergencies and usually 5th to 3rd, then let the box briefly select and engage 3rd en route from 4th to 2nd.

You also need to take into account what your right foot is doing during such double click shifts. Keep it all smooooth.

[vRS Carl]

....Although you can double click to shift down 2 gears, the DSG box always has only one gear in instant readiness either side of that you're already in. So if you're in 4th the box will have 3rd and 5th simultaneously ready for your selection but not 2nd. By double clicking quickly you are forcing the action and I'm not surprised it's hesitant whether intermittently or regularly.

My advice would be to break your habit rather than possibly risk longer term stress on your DSG. Besides which, it's not a habit which is kind to your engine revs either. If you must do it, and I have done so several times myself but only in emergencies and usually 5th to 3rd, then let the box briefly select and engage 3rd en route from 4th to 2nd.

You also need to take into account what your right foot is doing during such double click shifts. Keep at all smooooth.

Not quite true that Robin,

The DSG has two clutches. One that does even gears and one that does Odd.

So if you are in 3rd then it has 4th ready to select. If you they try to gear down it will take fractionally longer as it has to stop having 4th ready and move to 2nd.

Two independent gearbox units make up the DSG. With dual-clutch technology - two clutches in a common housing - both gearboxes are connected under load to the engine in turn, depending on the current gear, via two drive shafts. Clutch 1 serves the first gearbox unit with 1st, 3rd, 5th 7th and reverse gear and clutch 2 the second gearbox unit with 2nd, 4th and 6th gear. An output shaft that applies the torque to the driven wheels via the differential gear is assigned to each gearbox unit.

Split-second gear changes
When one gear is engaged, another gear is always preselected. Within four hundredths of a second after the system detects a gear change it opens one clutch and closes the other. The mechatronics unit ensures that this takes place fast and to a level of accuracy that would not be possible in a manual transmission. The change of gear is imperceptible to the driver who is merely conscious of the uninterrupted power.

Lou i think the problem for you is (which isn't a problem as such) that you are going from 4th to 2nd which is controlled by the same clutch so it has to disengage 4th and select second which is probably the hesitation you are feeling.


Plenty of info here (which is where i took the quotes from)

http://www.volkswagen.co.uk/technology/transmissions-and-drivetrains/dsg

If it is taking longer than normal then as Steve has alluded too it may be the Mechatronics unit playing up

[RedRobin]

Lou i think the problem for you is (which isn't a problem as such) that you are going from 4th to 2nd which is controlled by the same clutch so it has to disengage 4th and select second which is probably the hesitation you are feeling.

....That's what I was alluding to. Same difference - Lou is 'forcing' the shift. I still say it's not a great way to drive IMO whether DSG or manual or on any vehicle.

[vRS Carl]

I was refering to the "being in 4th and having 3rd and 5th simultaneously ready" bit

[LouCyffer]

Is your car a 57/08 car lou?

Have you had the dsg box serviced yet?

You have vcds? perhaps its worth doing basic settings of the dsg if you do.Although ive never tried it.Perhaps maybe an error with the downshift paddle? although vcds will show an error if there is.

Or ask your dealer whilst in to investigate whilst your factory warrantys still valid?

Steve, car is 22/01/08 on a 57. 22300miles. No DSG service yet. Factory warranty for a few more days! MOT on wednesday so I'll have the dealer on it. So they can have a look.

Lou i think the problem for you is (which isn't a problem as such) that you are going from 4th to 2nd which is controlled by the same clutch so it has to disengage 4th and select second which is probably the hesitation you are feeling.

....That's what I was alluding to. Same difference - Lou is 'forcing' the shift. I still say it's not a great way to drive IMO whether DSG or manual or on any vehicle.

Robin, yes I'm 'boxing' the shift as Police instructors taught me. I suspect that if it were an issue of technique, this would have shown itself before now. Unless my technique is gradually knackering something? Plus engine revs are very low, and peak below 3k (i've been watching & testing). My thoughts are toward the second clutch having to 'catch up' perhaps? In any case, Robin, I'll definately try spacing the shift more widely as you suggest.

It's worth clarifying the double click; it's not like a pc mouse; I'm shifting both ratios over about a second or slightly more. I have on several occasions noticed the same hesitation in D. Usually on the approach to a roundabout, the box is downshifting, and as I identify my traffic gap & apply throttle (while still rolling) the same can happen.

My issue revolves around the question of is this just a trait due to my driving style, or the box, or an impending fault?

Keep it coming please. I'm off to give her a bloody good wash down, fluids & pressures, and hopefully poke about with VCDS

Really I'm asking you guys to keep brainstorming

[Hedge]

I do the double click to change down, it's only the same as going from 4th to 2nd or 5th to 3rd in a manual, and my DSG box copes with it.

It isn't the sharpest tool in the box with other things I ask of it though. 

As has been said get it into the dealers and at least logged as a fault that they are investigating before your warranty runs out.

[vRS Carl]

As has been said Lou,

Do a VCDS reset. This will only reset everything to default and it will learn all the shift patterns again. It may cure it initially but if it comes back then it is a good indicator of something else being a problem. More than likely the mechantronics unit.

From what you describe in your last post it seems similar to how mine behaves. Mine is on a diseasel granted but the same sort of thing happens (although i don't have paddles) when im approaching roundabouts etc. I had mine serviced, the dealer said they can run a test to see if the Mech Unit is on the way out and after the test they said it appeared fine on mine.

If it was me i would take the car to a dealer, describe the problem and see what they say. Especially as you have a few days left on the Warranty they may just replace it anyway.

[RedRobin]

Robin, yes I'm 'boxing' the shift as Police instructors taught me. I suspect that if it were an issue of technique, this would have shown itself before now. Unless my technique is gradually knackering something? Plus engine revs are very low, and peak below 3k (i've been watching & testing). My thoughts are toward the second clutch having to 'catch up' perhaps? In any case, Robin, I'll definately try spacing the shift more widely as you suggest.

It's worth clarifying the double click; it's not like a pc mouse; I'm shifting both ratios over about a second or slightly more. I have on several occasions noticed the same hesitation in D. Usually on the approach to a roundabout, the box is downshifting, and as I identify my traffic gap & apply throttle (while still rolling) the same can happen.

My issue revolves around the question of is this just a trait due to my driving style, or the box, or an impending fault?

....Now that you've reported some hesitation also in D, I'm thinking that it could be a DSG box issue though probably minor and one which a reset might sort out. Mechatronics failures seem to be more obvious because the toys often get thrown out the pram and it refuses to select what you want at all.

Question to all:

Does disconnecting the battery action a DSG 'reset'? I've noticed that after such a workshop session the DSG has had to relearn my driving style.

[182_blue]

The box picks up your bad habits too LOL, mine spent the first few weeks sat in heavy traffic due to road works all the way to work, the car seemed to adapt itself to this and was a bit poo   in the gear change stakes, i reset the DSG and its been 100%  better  , not sure about your D issue ?, do the reset and try it, do it ASAP then if it doesnt sort get it booked in.

Is your car a 57/08 car lou?

Have you had the dsg box serviced yet?

You have vcds? perhaps its worth doing basic settings of the dsg if you do.Although ive never tried it.Perhaps maybe an error with the downshift paddle? although vcds will show an error if there is.

Or ask your dealer whilst in to investigate whilst your factory warrantys still valid?

Steve, car is 22/01/08 on a 57. 22300miles. No DSG service yet. Factory warranty for a few more days! MOT on wednesday so I'll have the dealer on it. So they can have a look.

Lou i think the problem for you is (which isn't a problem as such) that you are going from 4th to 2nd which is controlled by the same clutch so it has to disengage 4th and select second which is probably the hesitation you are feeling.

....That's what I was alluding to. Same difference - Lou is 'forcing' the shift. I still say it's not a great way to drive IMO whether DSG or manual or on any vehicle.

Robin, yes I'm 'boxing' the shift as Police instructors taught me. I suspect that if it were an issue of technique, this would have shown itself before now. Unless my technique is gradually knackering something? Plus engine revs are very low, and peak below 3k (i've been watching & testing). My thoughts are toward the second clutch having to 'catch up' perhaps? In any case, Robin, I'll definately try spacing the shift more widely as you suggest.

It's worth clarifying the double click; it's not like a pc mouse; I'm shifting both ratios over about a second or slightly more. I have on several occasions noticed the same hesitation in D. Usually on the approach to a roundabout, the box is downshifting, and as I identify my traffic gap & apply throttle (while still rolling) the same can happen.

My issue revolves around the question of is this just a trait due to my driving style, or the box, or an impending fault?

Keep it coming please. I'm off to give her a bloody good wash down, fluids & pressures, and hopefully poke about with VCDS

Really I'm asking you guys to keep brainstorming

[RedRobin]

Robin, yes I'm 'boxing' the shift as Police instructors taught me.

....I went on a private course, one-to-one, with a highly qualified Police instructor and I don't recall being taught any "boxing the shift" techniques. He did very strongly urge me to only drive in manual mode on my DSG though. Hence I now only use D for traffic jams and slow urban. But this doesn't help solve your problem.

[LouCyffer]

Ah, sorry Robin. This was back a couple of years ago when I had an Impreza.

VCDS shows no fault with the transmission. I've spoken to the dealer this morning & they have added this to Wednesday's job card. I'm hopeful that a DSG 'box reset may do the job. Prior to me, the 1st owner managed 9300 in 2 yeards. I suspect that it was driven very lightly. I was interested to note during my wash down & maintainance walkabout this morning that the oil level was fine. Previously it's been using a litre every 2-2.2k. I wonder if my driving style has assisted the 'run in'?

Anyway, back to topic. I'll have the dealer run a full reset on Wednesday.

I do the double click to change down, it's only the same as going from 4th to 2nd or 5th to 3rd in a manual, and my DSG box copes with it.

It isn't the sharpest tool in the box with other things I ask of it though. 

As has been said get it into the dealers and at least logged as a fault that they are investigating before your warranty runs out.

Yes, they will have it logged as a warranty grumble (I'm extending the warranty in any case). Hedge, I'm pleased to hear you have the love-hate relationship with DSG as I have. Some days it seems mad to have a car without it. Other times, I pine for a manual...

Robin, as you have such fast road/track experience, have you noticed anything similar if you, for example, had to hurry a shift into a bend?

I wonder if it's worth polling the DSGers amongst us regards hesitation (in auto mode) as I described.

On the plus side, car is now shiny, fresh, and free from grime...

Really appreciate the input, folk. Keep it coming; I want as much info as I can for Wednesday's dealer visit>

[QD MBE]

Lou i think the problem for you is (which isn't a problem as such) that you are going from 4th to 2nd which is controlled by the same clutch so it has to disengage 4th and select second which is probably the hesitation you are feeling.

....That's what I was alluding to. Same difference - Lou is 'forcing' the shift. I still say it's not a great way to drive IMO whether DSG or manual or on any vehicle.

^^^^

Why is that a bad way to drive a Manual?

In a manual you stick the clutch in, and select 2nd from 4th, and ready for a junction, bend or get instant acceleration capability for an overtake manouver, as long as you don't over-rev the engine what is the problem in a manual?