Forgotten Heroes....

[RedRobin]

I'm very anti soldiers being sent to places like Afghanistan at all but I also recognise and hugely respect how they are family to each other and risk their lives for each other, not just for some notion of patriotism. They need support regardless of the missions which politicians send them on.

You and me both. Im still confused as to why they are still there.

To put it simply...

To stop things like 9/11 and 7/7 being a more common occurrence

....That's the reason which governments want everyone to believe and who am I to say that there isn't some truth in that, but I'm not convinced that there aren't a number of much larger agendas as well or even considered by those in power to be more important. World strategies etc.

[vRS Carl]

Lets just say im privvy to more information than anyone on here  

[Janner_Sy]

true, i just design things then make people build them, dont get to do the fun stuff anymore

[RedRobin]

^^^^
To add:
If America stopped interfering in other cultures would these be reacting aggressively, if at all? These 'enemies' are called "terrorists" but they are only fighting with the limited means at their disposal.

Everyone thinks that 'god' is on their side. All peoples would prefer to live peacefully but it never seems to be possible.

[Hedge]

One mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter Robin. 

[Janner_Sy]

 there will always be an issue because there are extremists who will never be happy until they have enforced their sharia law on the rest of the world.  anyone who doesn't obey them including their own countrymen and fellow Muslims are victims just as much as the western world

[rich83]

Lets just say im privvy to more information than anyone on here 

I honestly think that 11/9 and 7/7 are the absolute last reasons that we are there. I think one of the reasons why we are still there is to try and validate the invasion. No WMDs were ever found, can you imagine if at that point all the troupes had been sent back?

At least the soldiers from WW2 returned with a sense of pride in the fact they had secured their families and future generations freedom from the Nazi dictatorship.... what exactly has this conflict achieved?

Im not wanting to belittle the efforts of the troops, after all they are just following orders... but i cant help feel that this is all in vain.

[vRS Carl]

We all need each other Sy.

Without me you couldn't do your job and without you i couldn't do mine

The thing that winds me up (and i'm not aiming this at anyone in particular) is when those who have no clue about what goes on out there or why we are their (apart from what they read on tinternet and see in the media) sit and say "our soldiers shouldn't be out their". Where do they want us to be?? Sat in the UK waiting for Ze German's again? What about all the UK Police, Comms specialists, Development NGO's etc that are out there? Should they not come home too?

Those who have never experienced military life don't understand that sometimes Attack is the best form of defence. I know Uncle Sam has some weird and wonderful ways of doing things. But they are learning their lessons. Often the hard way.

I'm not naive enough (and also pay too much attention in meetings sometimes) to think that every place i get sent is for "the global war on terror". However you could bet your bottom dollar that if we had a situation (like at the height of Irish Terrorism) where people's rucksack's were blowing up on a regular basis, people would be crying out for soldiers to be sent away to curb the violence.

I could go on and on but i won't.

People need to remember what they see in the News etc is manipulated to appear the way the news want it to appear. It's just a shame they very very rarely publish success stories.

[vRS Carl]

Lets just say im privvy to more information than anyone on here  

I honestly think that 11/9 and 7/7 are the absolute last reasons that we are there. I think one of the reasons why we are still there is to try and validate the invasion. No WMDs were ever found, can you imagine if at that point all the troupes had been sent back?

At least the soldiers from WW2 returned with a sense of pride in the fact they had secured their families and future generations freedom from the Nazi dictatorship.... what exactly has this conflict achieved?

Im not wanting to belittle the efforts of the troops, after all they are just following orders... but i cant help feel that this is all in vain.

You are sadly mistaken then.

Intelligence for Iraq i grant you was flawed but that was due the US relying too heavily on Sat Images and Comms intercepts. Afghanistan is a completely different ball game.

If i told you the no. of Terrorist atrocities that have been prevented as a DIRECT result of boots on the ground in Afghanistan you would be amazed. Some of them would have made 9/11 & 7/7 look tame. A couple of the more recent thwartings have been "accidentally" leaked to the press. Remember the Mumbai Style Simultaneous Strikes on UK, Germany & France!!

If you actually looked at the benefit troops have brought to Helmand province in Afghanistan:

Electricity being provided to over 4million EXTRA people in the Upper Sangin Valley region due to fixing the Hydro Electric plant and installing a second generator.
Running water
Lighting
Education
Afghan Army soldiers being trained (who suffer losses far higher than we do)
Afghan Police being trained (who suffer even more losses)
Bazaar's once allowed to open for a couple of hours a week now thrive for 5 days a week

Etc etc.

Im sure all that is in Vain!

[Janner_Sy]

Lets just say im privvy to more information than anyone on here 

I honestly think that 11/9 and 7/7 are the absolute last reasons that we are there. I think one of the reasons why we are still there is to try and validate the invasion. No WMDs were ever found, can you imagine if at that point all the troupes had been sent back?

At least the soldiers from WW2 returned with a sense of pride in the fact they had secured their families and future generations freedom from the Nazi dictatorship.... what exactly has this conflict achieved?

Im not wanting to belittle the efforts of the troops, after all they are just following orders... but i cant help feel that this is all in vain.

You are sadly mistaken then.

Intelligence for Iraq i grant you was flawed but that was due the US relying too heavily on Sat Images and Comms intercepts. Afghanistan is a completely different ball game.

If i told you the no. of Terrorist atrocities that have been prevented as a DIRECT result of boots on the ground in Afghanistan you would be amazed. Some of them would have made 9/11 & 7/7 look tame. A couple of the more recent thwartings have been "accidentally" leaked to the press. Remember the Mumbai Style Simultaneous Strikes on UK, Germany & France!!

If you actually looked at the benefit troops have brought to Helmand province in Afghanistan:

Electricity being provided to over 4million EXTRA people in the Upper Sangin Valley region due to fixing the Hydro Electric plant and installing a second generator.
Running water
Lighting
Education
Bazaar's once allowed to open for a couple of hours a week now thrive for 5 days a week

Etc etc.

Im sure all that is in Vain!

that'll be me doing that in 5 months im looking forward to it.  was lightly involved in the hydro power station project as well. 

[rich83]

Thats a fantastic achievement, but how has that stopped terrorism? (or am i just missing the point?)

I suppose we will never know what could have happened if we hadnt invaded when we did, I might be here arguing why the troops didnt go in sooner.

[vRS Carl]

I was highlighting some of what troops have achieved in Afghanistan aside from thwarting terrorism.

Terrorism has been stopped in numerous ways mainly by soldiers putting their lives on the line to capture the fcukwits.

[Janner_Sy]

what carl has said and is very true, is that a huge proportion of the terror plots against us originate in the middle east, in particular afghanistan and pakistan.

A direct result of us being out there targeting them on THEIR home soil is that huge amounts of their attempts are thwarted.  Of course the large majority is hidden from the public as it would incite FEAR into the civilian population which is exactly what the terrorists want.

The main boots on the ground are the small players in all fairness, its the stuff they 'special mission' that theyre support on the ground allow that make the big deals and differences, but as carl said, you cant have one without the other

[DaveB@Vagbremtechnic]

Post of the year right here

We all need each other Sy.

Without me you couldn't do your job and without you i couldn't do mine

The thing that winds me up (and i'm not aiming this at anyone in particular) is when those who have no clue about what goes on out there or why we are their (apart from what they read on tinternet and see in the media) sit and say "our soldiers shouldn't be out their". Where do they want us to be?? Sat in the UK waiting for Ze German's again? What about all the UK Police, Comms specialists, Development NGO's etc that are out there? Should they not come home too?

Those who have never experienced military life don't understand that sometimes Attack is the best form of defence. I know Uncle Sam has some weird and wonderful ways of doing things. But they are learning their lessons. Often the hard way.

I'm not naive enough (and also pay too much attention in meetings sometimes) to think that every place i get sent is for "the global war on terror". However you could bet your bottom dollar that if we had a situation (like at the height of Irish Terrorism) where people's rucksack's were blowing up on a regular basis, people would be crying out for soldiers to be sent away to curb the violence.

I could go on and on but i won't.

People need to remember what they see in the News etc is manipulated to appear the way the news want it to appear. It's just a shame they very very rarely publish success stories.

Rich, I work in aviation (at an airport) and when you see armed police patrolling the remote Rendesvous and Fire access gates on the perimeter EVERY 20 MINUTES instead of randomly once a week, its very scary. We had an elevated threat level about two weeks ago, my office is right next to one of those gates and very secluded, to the point that I'm absolutely ashamed to say it but every time somebody from an ethnic background visits the place to drop off a fedex parcel for example you inevitably become suspicious, I'm not proud of my mind working that way im simply scared on occasion. Can you imagine what the world and the threat level would be like if the war on terror wasn't taking place 

[rich83]

But increased security levels at airports (which I approve of as I fly a fair amount) and the actual war are two separate things, admittedly with the same goal.

It shouldn't scare you seeing perimeter patrols every 20 mins... in fact it should make you feel safer.


(any news on those hoses?)