Define a generic or custom remap?

[Janner_Sy]

Just saw a thread like this on briskoda and its opened a good little debate.

What is your opinion as a lot of tuners throw the words custom remap about, and there are many threads with guys having 'custom' maps.

who would you say offers a custom or generic, or is it not as simply cut as that, so what would make a generic map differ from a custom?

[Hedge]

To me a generic map, i.e. stage 1, fits standard car and operates within parameters so that any standard car car run the same map.

A custom map is one that is written specifically for that car and its standard of hardware tune.

[Janner_Sy]

but would that not still be a generic map but with some inbuilt adjust-ability.

ie REVO stage 2 is the same map on all the k03 TFSI's but with a varied 'range' of fuel/boost and timing parameters.  So it can be optimized.  Any TFSI can be loaded with a revo stage 2 map provided its got a downpipe.

My opinion on a custom map would be written for a car thats had a different turbo bolted to it, or the compression ratio changedm nitrous/wmi etc etc. so a map that needs to be built from the bottom up specific for that individual car, and wouldnt work on another car.

Granted all maps start life as a custom map, but saying that most tuners buy the maps in themselves from external venders and specialists

[Hedge]

Sorry Sy but you asked what my definition was.

Didn't realise there was a right and wrong answer. 

So do I not get to pick a teddy from the bottom shelf...... 

[Janner_Sy]

i posed an alternative view to your definition and put up my thoughts, thats what i like to call a discussion.

I wasnt aware id said you were wrong

[Hedge]

I wasnt aware id said you were wrong

I am but thats a different discussion 

[Janner_Sy]

I wasnt aware id said you were wrong

I am but thats a different discussion  

What would you say the bluefin stage 2 or 2+ would be classed as.

My thoughts are its a generic stage 2 map as its not adjusted for the individual car.  This i guess would go for any map thats not setup by the tuner with actual data logging and tweaking on the actual customers car.

[Hedge]

What would you say the bluefin stage 2 or 2+ would be classed as.

My thoughts are its a generic stage 2 map as its not adjusted for the individual car.  This i guess would go for any map thats not setup by the tuner with actual data logging and tweaking on the actual customers car.

I would say it is still generic as all you have to do is have a dp and cat.

Like anything though if you have a generic map and make your car breathe better or give the exhaust gas an easier exit then it will improve but your map will not be optimised (customised) for your mods.

Better? 

[chungster]

generic = OEM + fixed % increase across the board. Dyno plots mimic OEM one.

Custom = Not Generic. so anything that doesn't just do a simple mimic / + set % increase across the board. changes various areas to optimise the what bits the car has added from OEM spec.

 

[wigit]

The best misuse of the term custom map I have seen was from a rocco owner, he had a superchips agent install stage 1, deemed it custom as his ecu was read by obd port and file sent to superchips, heh presto agent receives file and flashes it to car,  hence why he thought it was custom, not realising thats how bluefin works, complete and utter  tool, used to make me smile with it in his sig

[Hurdy]

For me a custom map would be one designed from scratch specifically for one car - expensive and unique.

The generic map would then be a variation on the custom map above for a same type of car/engine.

A Generic map that is tweaked for the same engine with different bolt-ons would not be my idea of a custom map, it would be more of a tuner map.

[chungster]

Think the whole "custom" map thing is complete con and marketing gimmick in a way.

By oxford English dict definition "custom" is from customising.

Customising is changing something from how it was.

So from that perspective any kind of change to the OE map is a custom map as it's no longer how it was!

So all this generic vs custom is poo.

As for using MoTeCs etc..I don't think they write the map from scratch per se. They use a base map for that car to make sure all basic functions still work and the car can tick over. Difference is the ECU allowing the mapper to change way more stuff than your general remapper can on a Bosch med ECU.

[Poverty]

My take.

Custom map.

You take it to a tuner, they load a base map and then adjust it specifically to that car, done in a few hours.

Generic map, a ready map that will work sufficiently in a set of differenct circumstances all within safe parameters.


Would I let someone custom map my car? No not unless its going to take them a few weeks, as quite frankly having a map with just a few parameters tweaked is a rubbish map. Same goes for generic.

Revo change hundreds of different parameters, their maps are in development for bloody ages, its no wonder they make more power than the competition.

I will always stick to revo, ive seen logs of cars with so called custom logs and when comparing to revo they are a mess and make less power.

[PDT]

Good debate this one, and a question I am asked daily is 'can you do custom maps and how is it better than a generic map?'


The explanation could go into 3+ pages but a general rule is that a generic map is a 1 size fits all product, suitable for a wide range of applications and is not and can not be adjusted by the end user. i.e bluefin or 'flash remaps'. Flash remaps are a simple procedure where you take the car to a 'tuner' ( I use the term tuner very loosely for this type of remap option) and they get an ID of your ECU type and software version and email it to a 3rd party that will copy and paste the changed settings that were made for a similar ECU and car into a file and send it back, this file is then flashed over your current software, you get the keys back and the 'tuner' hopes it doesnt have any problems. The worst type of flash tuning is usually carried out from a back of a van.

A custom map will be very different, the tuner will likely be making the software themselfes rather than sending it away to a 3rd party and the use of a dyno is essential for back to back testing and measuring, however the use of a dyno does not define a custom map, its just a very very handy tool to have to determine wether ther changes you have made are making any real difference to power, emmissions, torque and various other parameters. A dyno allows you to back to back test the effect of the customising of the map in a controlled and safe environment. I.e if you add ignition advance is it making extra power? Is that extra bit of fuel you have added at 3000 rpm at 80% throttle lowered the exhaust gas temps to a safer levels, or has it effected the power output in any way?    You get the idea, its time consuming and costly but you get the best end product available, not essesntial for the average stage 1 car but for motorsport or highly modded stuff its a must.

Then you get the middle ground such as REVO, which offers the best of both worlds. A simple sliding scale to adjust the boost, timing and fueling properties within the map and can be accurately adjusted with on-road datalogging to get a good end product. Yes it is custom to a certain extent but lacks the resolution of a genuine custom map as you can only adjust 3 parameters on a 2D sliding scale, no single adjustments for fuel vs throttle position for example, but for a quick easy product they are the market leaders for a very good reason.

As a guide, anyone that offers a 'full custom map' without the use of a dyno is cutting corners a little. Anyone that offers a custom map without any datalogging is either missinformed or pulling the wool over your eyes. We had a customer in yesterday that had a 'proper custom remap' (his words) that cost just £200 and was finished in just 10 mins, he was enquiring about rolling road testing as he couldnt tell the difference after it was done apart from it was jerky at low throttle, the 'tuner' said it will get better when the weather isnt so cold


  

 

[Hurdy]

^^^^ agree with this^^^^^

a better explanation of what I posted earlier