Autotech vs APR HPFP

[vRS_Pagey]

Are the rebuilt APR pumps pressure tested and as reliable as the new version?

[ROH ECHT]

Had Autotech's 1st and had my VW mech install it. It was damaged after 5800 miles. The cam wore through the follower and took the tip of the rod off. Next time I put in the APR and have had it for nearly 20k miles. I have to put in a new follower every 10k miles as it wears quickly. They are not the same, as the Autotech uses the oem spring and APR does not. Another popular option growing here in the states is 'HPFP Upgrade's' new pumps. They come in three stages and they also have a new polished chrome follower. There have not been many complaints at all on their products to date and might be worth looking into. I just do not know if the ship internationally, so check on that;

http://hpfpupgrade.com/BrowseProducts/Show/Volkswagen

[RedRobin]

.
The war of the HPFP's has been waging for years.

If they were both the same price, which would you buy?

....So, all you guys with Autotechs, would you still have bought it if the APR was the same price?

that's a bit of a silly question. the APR probably is better, i think few would deny that. BUT it's not worth 3x the price.

....Not a silly question at all but a question designed to make folks think which they would buy if the price factor was removed. It's a bit of a no-brainer methinks but many folks can't look at matters objectively enough to answer the question without introducing the price difference.

Whether that big price difference is worth it or not is up to the individual but the bottom line must surely be which is the better product.

[vRS_Pagey]

OT but ROH ECHT, your wheels are......

[ROH ECHT]

OT but ROH ECHT, your wheels are......

I missed the topic? :(
I thought it was autotech vs apr hpfp, right? Or no?
I have had both so I chimed in...

Thanks for the compliment on the wheels, cheers

[vRS Carl]

OT but ROH ECHT, your wheels are......

I missed the topic? :(
I thought it was autotech vs apr hpfp, right? Or no?
I have had both so I chimed in...

Thanks for the compliment on the wheels, cheers

I think he meant his comment about your wheels was Off Topic 

[sub39h]

.
The war of the HPFP's has been waging for years.

If they were both the same price, which would you buy?

....So, all you guys with Autotechs, would you still have bought it if the APR was the same price?

that's a bit of a silly question. the APR probably is better, i think few would deny that. BUT it's not worth 3x the price.

....Not a silly question at all but a question designed to make folks think which they would buy if the price factor was removed. It's a bit of a no-brainer methinks but many folks can't look at matters objectively enough to answer the question without introducing the price difference.

Whether that big price difference is worth it or not is up to the individual but the bottom line must surely be which is the better product.

It's silly because it's kinda like saying "would you own a new Ferrari if it cost the same as your Golf?"

The point is that a Ferrari costs more, so a comparison on those terms is a moot point. That's all I meant.

[RedRobin]

.
The war of the HPFP's has been waging for years.

If they were both the same price, which would you buy?

....So, all you guys with Autotechs, would you still have bought it if the APR was the same price?

that's a bit of a silly question. the APR probably is better, i think few would deny that. BUT it's not worth 3x the price.

....Not a silly question at all but a question designed to make folks think which they would buy if the price factor was removed. It's a bit of a no-brainer methinks but many folks can't look at matters objectively enough to answer the question without introducing the price difference.

Whether that big price difference is worth it or not is up to the individual but the bottom line must surely be which is the better product.

It's silly because it's kinda like saying "would you own a new Ferrari if it cost the same as your Golf?"

The point is that a Ferrari costs more, so a comparison on those terms is a moot point. That's all I meant.

....Yes, it's a no-brainer and that's the point of what you are calling a "silly question". Do you really find it so difficult to make comparitive judgements without thinking of cost?

[Bernhard30]

I'm still confused on this. So in very simple terms so I can understand. Can I ask this?

Accepting that both items can fail in use, what failure does most damage or are both fairly terminal for your engine whatever pump you have
- if it fails and is not noticed early.

As in does a failing Autotech cause more ££££ of damage than a failing APR???, in a hypothetical situation of course.
And are both likely to lunch through cam followers?

Or is it that when running a HPFP/tuning you are just leaving things a bit to chance, at both price points?

[Hedge]

I think the point is that a failing Autotech will take your engine with it. 

Provided you check your cam follower regularly there should be no problems with the APR. 

[sub39h]

.
The war of the HPFP's has been waging for years.

If they were both the same price, which would you buy?

....So, all you guys with Autotechs, would you still have bought it if the APR was the same price?

that's a bit of a silly question. the APR probably is better, i think few would deny that. BUT it's not worth 3x the price.

....Not a silly question at all but a question designed to make folks think which they would buy if the price factor was removed. It's a bit of a no-brainer methinks but many folks can't look at matters objectively enough to answer the question without introducing the price difference.

Whether that big price difference is worth it or not is up to the individual but the bottom line must surely be which is the better product.

It's silly because it's kinda like saying "would you own a new Ferrari if it cost the same as your Golf?"

The point is that a Ferrari costs more, so a comparison on those terms is a moot point. That's all I meant.

....Yes, it's a no-brainer and that's the point of what you are calling a "silly question". Do you really find it so difficult to make comparitive judgements without thinking of cost?

Clearly I don't as I've already acknowledged that the APR is probably a better bet. But my point is that the hypothetical argument is a pointless one because when you take into account the cost the Autotech is probably a better bet based on the ABSOLUTE risk of failure and value for money.

That's where my Golf vs Ferrari analogy came in. Most of us would have a Ferrari if we could afford one, but we can't so making a direct comparison to the Golf isn't a meaningful one. The cost factor can't simply be ignored to favour one choice over the other.

[ROH ECHT]

OT but ROH ECHT, your wheels are......

I missed the topic? :(
I thought it was autotech vs apr hpfp, right? Or no?
I have had both so I chimed in...

Thanks for the compliment on the wheels, cheers

I think he meant his comment about your wheels was Off Topic  

Derp! ;/ Thanks for clearing my head for me..

With which ever one somebody chooses, they MUST check or simply replace the follower on a regular schedule. You will need to check the follower every 5k miles at first to determine at what miles you will need to replace the follower from then on. As soon as the coating is worn through, throw in a new follower. This will differ from car to car even if two cars are running the same hpfp upgrade. Some people need to replace the follower every 5k miles and others need to replace it every 20k miles regardless the company you choose.

[PDT]

I'm quite torn on this....

On one hand, you have PDT stating that he's never seen a problem with the autotech internals after many many installs  

On the other, you have tuners, such as JKM who will no longer install the internals and will only fit the full APR pump  

Internals have very little in the way of profit margins, but an APR pump from an APR dealer has a healthy profit margin and are easier to install.

The only component likely to fail with either option is the internal seal (there's plenty of info about both options having seal failure) and the cam lobe/follower issue is a general TFSi problem wether you have an unrated HPFP or not.

If you go Autotech then installation is the key feature to longevity, the reason for many of the failures of the internal seal is nothing more than poor installation.

Autotech owners and retailers will say go Autotech, Apr owners and retailers will say the opposite. The truth is that Autotech have sold 10's of thousands of pumps and APR have probably sold plenty as well, neither have any real documented history of causing engine failure.

I would be more concerned with correct installation and mapping/datalogging than the brand fitted and then replace the cam follower at every oil change.

[sub39h]

Internals have very little in the way of profit margins, but an APR pump from an APR dealer has a healthy profit margin and are easier to install.

The only component likely to fail with either option is the internal seal (there's plenty of info about both options having seal failure) and the cam lobe/follower issue is a general TFSi problem wether you have an unrated HPFP or not.

If you go Autotech then installation is the key feature to longevity, the reason for many of the failures of the internal seal is nothing more than poor installation.

Autotech owners and retailers will say go Autotech, Apr owners and retailers will say the opposite. The truth is that Autotech have sold 10's of thousands of pumps and APR have probably sold plenty as well, neither have any real documented history of causing engine failure.

I would be more concerned with correct installation and mapping/datalogging than the brand fitted and then replace the cam follower at every oil change.

This is why I'm going Autotech

[vRS Carl]

I'm quite torn on this....

On one hand, you have PDT stating that he's never seen a problem with the autotech internals after many many installs  

On the other, you have tuners, such as JKM who will no longer install the internals and will only fit the full APR pump  

Internals have very little in the way of profit margins, but an APR pump from an APR dealer has a healthy profit margin and are easier to install.

The only component likely to fail with either option is the internal seal (there's plenty of info about both options having seal failure) and the cam lobe/follower issue is a general TFSi problem wether you have an unrated HPFP or not.

If you go Autotech then installation is the key feature to longevity, the reason for many of the failures of the internal seal is nothing more than poor installation.

Autotech owners and retailers will say go Autotech, Apr owners and retailers will say the opposite. The truth is that Autotech have sold 10's of thousands of pumps and APR have probably sold plenty as well, neither have any real documented history of causing engine failure.

I would be more concerned with correct installation and mapping/datalogging than the brand fitted and then replace the cam follower at every oil change.

Dave not trying to cause an argument here. But can you show me this documented proof of APR seals failing?? I can't find one instance of this online anywhere. The only one i have ever seen is the Piston going through the follower and impacting direct on the cam lobe. IIRC that was due to the follower having not been changed for about 60k miles.

In your estimation the reason Autotech's fail is due to poor installation. So how come mine lasted 50k miles before failing and I installed it myself on the drive at home. No sterile environment just a careful take OEM parts out and install new ones.

The reason Autotech's cause seal failure, from everything i have read, is due to a stepped piston. Fuel gets behind the step and as a liquid can't be compressed it takes the easiest option, i.e. past the seal. Autotech could sove this issue quite easily by making the piston the same diameter the whole length of the shaft, as per the APR.

I don't agree there is a healthy profit margin on these APR pump's either. Have you actually looked at the cost of one to a retailer? I've spoken to a few when i got one and there is very little margin in them. I would think most would make up their "margin" through the fitting.

I'm not knocking the Autotech ones. I got one from the original batch they made which cost me iirc about £225. I fitted it myself and it lasted 50K miles. even when it started to fail it was still meeting the requested 129.99bar. But if i was to do it all over again i would go straight for APR. I agree the cost of the APR is high. But at least you know it has been thoroughly tested and offers peace of mind.

For all those who are umming and arring look at it this way. You can get tyres for a Golf GTi that cost £45. They work perfectly well and are perfectly safe in terms of they do the job they are designed to do as intended. However everyone quite happily pays double or more (mine where 3x as much per tyre).

But at the end of the day you pays your money and you takes your chances. This argument will go on for time ever more