Autotech vs APR HPFP

[Hedge]

cost me iirc about £225.

Not that much iirc. 

[rich83]

cost me iirc about £225.

Not that much iirc. 

[vRS_Pagey]

Dave not trying to cause an argument here. But can you show me this documented proof of APR seals failing?? I can't find one instance of this online anywhere. The only one i have ever seen is the Piston going through the follower and impacting direct on the cam lobe. IIRC that was due to the follower having not been changed for about 60k miles.

In your estimation the reason Autotech's fail is due to poor installation. So how come mine lasted 50k miles before failing and I installed it myself on the drive at home. No sterile environment just a careful take OEM parts out and install new ones.

The reason Autotech's cause seal failure, from everything i have read, is due to a stepped piston. Fuel gets behind the step and as a liquid can't be compressed it takes the easiest option, i.e. past the seal. Autotech could sove this issue quite easily by making the piston the same diameter the whole length of the shaft, as per the APR.

I don't agree there is a healthy profit margin on these APR pump's either. Have you actually looked at the cost of one to a retailer? I've spoken to a few when i got one and there is very little margin in them. I would think most would make up their "margin" through the fitting.

I'm not knocking the Autotech ones. I got one from the original batch they made which cost me iirc about £225. I fitted it myself and it lasted 50K miles. even when it started to fail it was still meeting the requested 129.99bar. But if i was to do it all over again i would go straight for APR. I agree the cost of the APR is high. But at least you know it has been thoroughly tested and offers peace of mind.

For all those who are umming and arring look at it this way. You can get tyres for a Golf GTi that cost £45. They work perfectly well and are perfectly safe in terms of they do the job they are designed to do as intended. However everyone quite happily pays double or more (mine where 3x as much per tyre).

But at the end of the day you pays your money and you takes your chances. This argument will go on for time ever more

Don't quote me, but I thought Autotech had done, or were planning on doing this?? 

[ktlstar]

If Autotech thought they had a fault in there products, surely they would go back to the drawing board - Do the same design at APR ?






edit: ^^ posted same time as me lol!

[vRS Carl]

cost me iirc about £225.

Not that much iirc. 

I said about 

[vRS Carl]

Don't quote me, but I thought Autotech had done, or were planning on doing this?? 

If they are then they haven't done it yet.

[martziniuk]

If Autotech did ever copy the APR design it would cost a lot more than it does now as they'd have to enlarge the piston and all the associated parts that go with it.

[ktlstar]

Yes but by doing that, they will get more fans to the product. IF they do that route they would have to match or be cheaper then APR units - that will be a win/win.

How long have then been producing the Units for (Autotech) ?

[muckipup]

In your estimation the reason Autotech's fail is due to poor installation. So how come mine lasted 50k miles before failing and I installed it myself on the drive at home. No sterile environment just a careful take OEM parts out and install new ones.
 

I have to echo what Carl is saying here, I did install mine myself admittedly but did do it on cling film with IPA, nitrile gloves etc and was absolutely meticulous about it. My autotech internals ran for a good time (about 20k iirc) but a problem with the map that I had at the time meant I was only getting 110bar of rail pressure. A change of map and the full 130 bar of rail pressure and my pump failed sometime within a week by the time I noticed. Now I'm not discounting an installation problem but the failure of the OEM seal at the time that it did would suggest something else. I can't blame rail pressure as that's the point of the upgrade.

I have to say that I have kept an eye on the whole APR/Autotech failures and, like Carl, was not aware of the internal seal failing on APR pumps - only the cam follower is issue with both and also OEM.

But at the end of the day you pays your money and you takes your chances. This argument will go on for time ever more

I think that sums it up! I  know that Carl is not anti-Autotech and neither am I - we both faced the same choice as everyone else considering an uprated HPFP and both went for Autotech. I still have nothing against going the Autotech route but only advise that folks keep an eye on it and don't assume that a professional installation is a guarantee of longevity because Autotech failures are all about installation. They are about the inherent weakness of the internal seal in the OEM pump....most will last I guess, but some will not.

[vRS Carl]

I don't really think it's a weakness of the seal though. It works perfectly well with the OEM internals.

[muckipup]

Fair point - I was just about to modify my post to say the increased pressure put on the seal with the stepped piston design trapping fuel behind it and applying the pressure on the return stroke 

[vRS Carl]

Fastest finger first Dave

[56OctyVRS]

I cannot work out why tuners need to run fuel pressure at 130 bar.  From what Ive read on other forums about flow rate in injectors, the optimum flow rate for TFSI injectors is 110 bar and anymore can actually create back pressure, slowing the fuel down putting extra strain on the HPFP.  I know that Shark maps run at around 110 bar and not the full 130 bar as other tuners and the engines still make the same power.  I see the benefit of running with upgraded HPFP as I have an Autotech fitted and it picks up cleaner and holds the power.  But I am wondering if the HPFP are being put under strain and its actually the injectors cannot flow the 130 bar easily like an S3 injector and its causing extra back pressure in the fuel rail.  I could be wrong but its worth a thought

[muckipup]

Dunno mate but I thought it was the pump limitation that was causing the so-called fuel cut in modified cars.

I needed it for a KO4 conversion which involves S3 injectors getting fitted so never questioned it.

[vRS_Pagey]

Fastest finger first Dave

And where does that finger go Mr Fleming?