Understeer is the enemy..

[Janner_Sy]

i agree. I had eibachs,and whilst understeer was vastly reduced over the stock setup, i was close to buying a swapping hte eibach rear bar for a stiffer rear bar to match to the front eibach bar.  Abit to neutral tbh

[the bruce]

TT,

don't take a sweeping judgement about arb ratio f/r.  
In some cases an bigger bar front will help.
With your stock suspension your front wheels need camber.
Body roll reduces the needed camber even more.
So reducing body roll saves camber and improves grip.

To reduce understeer significiently you have to follow my complete
summary above. Your tyres, a WALK and a good suspension are
absolutly neccessary if you want to bring back your former TT's
handling.

[TT-Turbo]

TT,

don't take a sweeping judgement about arb ratio f/r. 
In some cases an bigger bar front will help.
With your sock suspension your front wheels need camber.
Body roll reduces the needed camber even more.
So reducing body roll saves camber an improves grip.

To reduce understeer significiently you have to follow my complete
summary above. Your tyres, a WALK and a good suspension are
absolutly neccessary if you want to bring back your former TT's
handling.

I like the idea of what you have listed to help improve handling. I have seen many people just upgrade the rear ARB to get more a neutral car, it might be a slightly different ball game with the TT compared to the MKV. One thing is for sure and that's adding and maintaining camber will be of a huge help. Putting on a bigger FARB will help the initial turn in and will feel solid but could be easier for the front to break into understeer. I have got to say this forum in quite a few ways is so much more interesting than the TT forum, proper conversation about how to set cars up rather than some old fart worrying about how to run his engine in haha.

[laurent.d]

TT,

don't take a sweeping judgement about arb ratio f/r. 
In some cases an bigger bar front will help.
With your sock suspension your front wheels need camber.
Body roll reduces the needed camber even more.
So reducing body roll saves camber an improves grip.

To reduce understeer significiently you have to follow my complete
summary above. Your tyres, a WALK and a good suspension are
absolutly neccessary if you want to bring back your former TT's
handling.

Yep, agreed 100%.

You can also consider SuperPro Front Bushes. One kit act like Walk kit.

[the bruce]

Right, every flexing in the suspension reduces the amount of camber.
Stiffer bushes not only give more precision, they help to save precious camber
under load when cornering hard.

Static camber is one thing, the effective camber in fast corners is another thing.

 

[laurent.d]

I was mentioning Superpro kit which put more downward and outward the rear of the front wishbones like WALK kit does.

[tony_danza]

Front camber is key, ARBs are for control.

It's all very well having the stiffest ARBs you can find, but they make the car compromised in the wet and on certain types of track (Ring being one).

Superpro version of WALK and having the geometry set up correctly is the first point of call.

The rear of the car on OEM settings has faaar too much grip, making the car naturally understeer. The early GTIs had much better geometry and it's what earned the car all the praise of the press, then they changed it and ruined the car.. no doubt to stop Americans putting them on their roofs and taking lawsuits out.

Either find the early GTI settings or go a bit more aggressive - Set the rear camber half a degree less than the front wheels and change from toe in to parallel. The toe in on the front can be relaxed as the poly bush will be giving much better control, then the car will feel much, much better.

Then do ARBs.
Then do S3 wishbones.

[the bruce]

The early GTIs had much better geometry and it's what earned the car all the praise of the press, then they changed it and ruined the car..

Tell me some more about, Tony !!

[tony_danza]

As that really, the very early MK5s had different geometry which made the car much more neutral and alive... then they added a load of 'safety' to it, dulling the car.

The rear is fully adjustable for camber and toe, all you have to do is find somewhere with a copy of the early car's settings and change your cars to suit. Or, simply take it to someone who understands track geometry and have it set up to suit your style. I strongly believe you should get the geometry right before spending money elsewhere.

When I changed mine, it made a really big difference to the car and I could set it up quite softly and still have a lot of fun. It was absolutely neutral with fantastic turn in and very progressive, rather than just stiff with snap under/oversteer on the limit.

[the bruce]

Tony, I hoped to get the geometry data of the early Mk.V from you.  

I know about setting toe, camber and caster to improve turn in and cornering speed and
had my GTI at Raeder Motorsport for alignment last year (who own the FWD Ring record).

Anyway I'd like to know the former data if there's a difference.  



ps: I'll try the 24/24 mm Whiteline ARBs in a few weeks

[tony_danza]

Ahhh, now I understand! I did have it but have misplaced it. I'll see if I can get it again.

[the bruce]

This a 2011 Golf GTI Mk. VI:



Don't care about the differences in front camber left/right - it's not my car.

[laurent.d]

The bruce, do you have the alignment vlues Raeder Motorsport set on your car?

[Redev]

Hi all to answer a few questions, yes it is a GTI and I'm running Pilot Sport 3 Tyres (i'm not about to put Michelin PSS on as I've only just put a brand new set of boots on all round).

At the moment I'm more concerned about the understeer in the dry on road, although I ideally want a good wet weather set up, again I'm not expecting the same handling as a quattro but I naturally want the best I can out of the GTI.

Thanks for all the useful advice. As the thread shows although you can search for this info, sometimes there are so many different opinions and options it becomes mind boggling, it doesnt hurt to hope for a definitive answer! Now I know  there isnt one, I can start adding the handling mods...one by one...Again!!!

The modding never ends does it  

Thanks all and any further advice from experience is welcome..

[the bruce]

Follow the mod list above and do as much as you can afford to get the
best possible result.
Most people don't have the time to do these mods step by step an
adust all the possible settings. If you want to feel results as quick as
possible you have to spend some money for eg B14 + WALK + ARBs +
TT arms + bushes . . .


Laurent,

they didn't made a print, but I still have it in my head. 
We made decision for a compromise street and track.
Little bit more toe in front and near zero toe on rear and of course
the corner weights.