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Author Topic: GIAC versus Revo Stage 2+  (Read 27202 times)

Offline keith

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Re: GIAC versus Revo Stage 2+
« Reply #30 on: March 23, 2009, 10:32:02 pm »
I spoke to star about updates last month and they said nothing new on the horizon, but a call to regal tomorrow to find more info maybe called for.

can i ask why you only have the downpipe fitted, most folks go for just the rear I am sure your the 1st i have heard to do the opposite.this zorst business confuses me hence i ahve never bought one..... that and the prices :laugh:

Offline jamiekip

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Re: GIAC versus Revo Stage 2+
« Reply #31 on: March 23, 2009, 11:14:04 pm »
I've consulted JonnyC about most mod's on my car (from when he had his S3) and what he doesn't know about the 2.0TFSI now after all the work his done across three cars, well frankly, isn't worth knowing.

I've spoken to him about exhausts and yeah, of course a full system will give you the best results, but I need may car to appear relatively stock for when i'm visiting clients... plus the boss (AKA my girlfriend) would have a word with me about something like an aftermarket exhaust.
Anyway, with the new facelifted S3, lot's of people have had issues with misfires after having remaps done... nothing new, as a lot of people suffered injector issue related misfires, but on the facelifts the injectors were not the cause.  The downpipe is slightly different on the facelift S3's and this was the cause.  Basically, it is the most restrictive part of the whole OEM system on all 2.0TFSI cars (when you see it next to the Milltek you can really see the difference), and the OEM backbox is pretty free breathing anyway.

So, I put just the Milltek downpipe on as a bit of a test to see if for 40% of the cost, you can get 70% of the performance gain and you guessed it, Jonny was bang on the money I've seen an increase in headline figures of 7bhp and 6lb/ft, but that is only part of the story.

Here is a comparison from when my car was just a map and panel filter and then adding the down pipe:



You can see low end torque is much improved, and power is pretty much improved all through the rev range.
You can definately feel the difference, plus the exhaust note is improved.  :happy2:

I'd recommend this as a cheaper alternative to a full system and it will deffo yield more performance gain than just the back box.

J



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Offline gazbutS3

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Re: GIAC versus Revo Stage 2+
« Reply #32 on: March 24, 2009, 07:14:05 am »
top write up Jamie, this was a route I was thinking of taking as well but then E-bay through up a cat-back I couldn't resist :smiley:

without being picky though, it wasn't the facelifted cars that started with the downpipe issue on the S3's, it was the 08 pre-facelift where something changed and the issues started as far as I know, I had the issues and they all dissapeared wehn I put the downpipe on :happy2:

Offline keith

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Re: GIAC versus Revo Stage 2+
« Reply #33 on: March 24, 2009, 07:25:55 am »
Thanks Jamie power graphs before and after :happy2:. some folks said that the stock downpipe was ok and not as restrictive as the prev mk4 version so thats something for me to think about once the modding moderator lifts my ban.

Offline john_o

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Re: GIAC versus Revo Stage 2+
« Reply #34 on: March 24, 2009, 08:04:07 am »
nice data Jamie thanks  :happy2: never even considered the downpipe only ......
In terms of fitment , is it easy from downpipe end to start of OE system? i.e
Is there an adapter of some sort for bolt to clamp conversion + reducing the internal diam to OE size ?
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Offline jamiekip

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Re: GIAC versus Revo Stage 2+
« Reply #35 on: March 24, 2009, 10:30:40 am »
 :signLOL: no test is complete with some stats to support it!

@ Gaz - not picky, and yeah you're comepltely right, I remember someone mentioning that 08 cars had the same issue (may even have been you  :P )

@ Keith - when you see the two side by side the OEM downpipe is very restrictive - narrowest part of the whole OEM system

@ John O - Fitment in my case was a bit of a mare, as I bought the downpipe of a mate who went big turbo and had a custom downpipe developed.  As a result,  Regal had to construct a custom centre section to marry the OEM rear section and down pipe.  It's only straight pipe, so didn't take long, but added a little to the labour cost of fitting.
You can get a Downpipe with sports cat and a centre section from Milltek I believe that makes it easy.  Any decent mod shop should have the adaptors that allow them to reduce and mate the milltek to the OEM back box, however, on the S3 at least the OEM back box is pretty wide anyway - just be sure to mention it when booking in I guess.

 :happy2:
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Offline RedRobin

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Re: GIAC versus Revo Stage 2+
« Reply #36 on: March 24, 2009, 11:17:09 am »

Regal had to construct a custom centre section to marry the OEM rear section and down pipe.  It's only straight pipe, so didn't take long, but added a little to the labour cost of fitting.

You can get a Downpipe with sports cat and a centre section from Milltek I believe that makes it easy.  Any decent mod shop should have the adaptors that allow them to reduce and mate the milltek to the OEM back box, however, on the S3 at least the OEM back box is pretty wide anyway - just be sure to mention it when booking in I guess.


....I'm wondering if, when you mate the stock centre pipe (leading to stock back box) to the Milltek downpipe, don't you interfere with the Milltek's overall system design by reducing the pipe diameter? I hasten to add that I don't know the answer to this but I'll probably ask Mr Milly when we next speak.

Does the stock S3 have a centre box (equivalent to Milltek's Resonated system) or have you done away with that and so have your own 'Non-Resonated' system. The exhaust music will be more audible in the cabin without the centre box - Hasn't the GF noticed?

Your car sounded good when I very briefly heard it at Bolney Stage though I think that a full Milltek system would sound stronger.

I would also regularly check your cat to make sure it's not rattling as a sign of too much heat and melting. Without the full system I would expect your Milltek warranty to be fooked.

It all sounds rather BIALI, which is very commendable, but as I understand things there is more to the design of a performance exhaust system than just mixing pipework.


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Offline jamiekip

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Re: GIAC versus Revo Stage 2+
« Reply #37 on: March 24, 2009, 11:39:37 am »
Pay attention at the back Robin  :rolleye:

I have a custom centre section.
The stock items and Milltek items are not designed to the same sizes, therefore I have a Milltek Downpipe and sports Cat, a custom centre section and the OEM rear incuding the silencers.
In terms of pipe diameter, the reduction from the centre section to the OEM back box, looked to be relatively small - the restriction in the OEM system is definately in the downpipe and to a lesser degree the centre section, not the backbox.

So, yeah, noise is a bit louder, but not massively so, and only under full load and aobe 2750k rpm when the valve in the zorst is triggered.

You're right, there is more to the design of the pipe work than just bolting things together and I will be keeping an eye on it.  It may apear a bit Biali  :scared: but I had lot's of chats with JonnyC and Regal and there is no issue.  In fact, some people tune their exhaust to develop specifc charecteristics in their engine, for example, I'm told that a wider down pipe and front section leading to a narrower back box system helps improve mid range torque (I hear a lot of Evo owners do this), where is widening the system from start through to exit helps drive bigger power.  :happy2:

As said in my earlier post, I don't want a full system on my car, I dont like the tips Milltek do for the S3 (though I hear new ones are in development!)  plus the Boss (girlfriend) would have something to say!   :happy2:
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Offline john_o

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Re: GIAC versus Revo Stage 2+
« Reply #38 on: March 24, 2009, 11:57:17 am »
thanks jamie  :happy2:
I can definitely see the benefits of a system that doesnt shout its been modified (Boss / dealer etc ...)
but sounds  :laugh:
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Offline RedRobin

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Re: GIAC versus Revo Stage 2+
« Reply #39 on: March 24, 2009, 12:10:53 pm »

I can definitely see the benefits of a system that doesnt shout its been modified (Boss / dealer etc ...)


....Any good dealer is going to spot the downpipe immediately when they service or workshop the car. Why on earth would you want to hide it from a dealer anyway?

As for people (not picking on you, Jamie) hiding their car mods from their wives/GF's....... What kind of relationship is that? - Get yourself a separate account, don't do only a joint account (you could regret it one day because you never know what's around the corner).
« Last Edit: March 24, 2009, 12:12:36 pm by RedRobin »


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Offline john_o

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Re: GIAC versus Revo Stage 2+
« Reply #40 on: March 24, 2009, 12:28:13 pm »
of course they are robin  :laugh:  dont take it so seriously   :grouphug:
but to casual man on the street , thief etc it looks std and doesnt shout 'Im fast nick me to find out'
you could theorise ,when going into VW to make a warranty claim for wheels etc , you may not get an immediate 'its modded bugger off' reply. not all dealers are mod friendly, ok its a small point but can help.
and of course some people absolutely must have the OE look (but better perf) no matter what.
As for GF/wife , im not about to tell jamie how to do things.
We all do things differently (for the record my wife knows all my spends  :happy2:)


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Offline RedRobin

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Re: GIAC versus Revo Stage 2+
« Reply #41 on: March 24, 2009, 12:44:17 pm »
^^^^
No, I'm not telling Jamie or anyone what to do - I'm just expressing my opinion about what I think is best to do.

:happy2: 8) :happy2:


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Offline john_o

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Re: GIAC versus Revo Stage 2+
« Reply #42 on: March 24, 2009, 12:49:05 pm »
and we love ya for it come ere  :grouphug:  :smiley:
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Offline RedRobin

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Re: GIAC versus Revo Stage 2+
« Reply #43 on: March 24, 2009, 12:52:45 pm »

and we love ya for it come ere  :grouphug:  :smiley:


....But no tongues!!
 
:drinking:  :smiley:


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Offline jamiekip

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Re: GIAC versus Revo Stage 2+
« Reply #44 on: March 24, 2009, 01:54:58 pm »
Ahh, Robin getting some love  :love:  :signLOL:
Not a case of hiding stuff from my girlfriend though  Robin mate, she's pretty chilled out about cars to be honest, but she doesn't approve of the 'look at me' nature of some mod's and I like a peaceful life...
Besides, I talked myself out of a full exhaust some time ago as I simply didn't like the tips available for the S3.

Either way, I'm happy with what this little mod has delivered.
You should have a drive at the next Biali meet Robin.  :drinking:

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