Make a donation

Author Topic: Lean Fuel Issues after 4k rpm on Revo Stage 2+ Ed30  (Read 90232 times)

Offline RedRobin

  • Just look at my post count
  • ******
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 380
  • -Receive: 442
  • Posts: 16627
  • BIALI Motorsport's Chief Horn Blower
Re: Lean Fuel Issues after 4k rpm on Revo Stage 2+ Ed30
« Reply #30 on: March 28, 2009, 02:40:57 pm »

The Quaife was probably tested by VWR before I picked my car up and naturally, they would have given it some to make sure everything was working ok... 

This brings me back to what Keith from JKM said.... he said that if the Revo settings were on 0,0,0 then it would mean that the timing may cause issues if the car was driven hard - not sure why although he did explain why but I've forgotten.


....VWR will have most definitely tested the newly installed Quaife before handing your car back to you - You would want that to be done, I'm sure.

What I don't understand is why, according to Keith/JKM, issues may have been caused after Revo automatically reset itself to 'stock' (0,0,0) as it always does on a battery disconnection - Surely the ECU still applies its own engine protective measures. Obviously I'm not as expert as Keith and it would be useful to know the detail.

You're like me, illyun - I understand when it's all explained at the time but unless I make notes it's soon forgotten!

Looking forward to seeing you again at The Pod this Sunday :happy2:


On facebook: https://www.facebook.com/robin.procter.50

Throbbin' Red Mk5 GTI DSG with too many mods to list - Have Fun but Safe Journeys!

Offline chungster

  • Just look at my post count
  • ******
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 6
  • -Receive: 33
  • Posts: 1963
Re: Lean Fuel Issues after 4k rpm on Revo Stage 2+ Ed30
« Reply #31 on: March 28, 2009, 02:43:44 pm »
so JKM reckons VWR have buggered the car when ragging it testing the LSD???

sorry but if Revo settings got reverted back to 0,0,0, its in stock mode.

ragging it should NOT damage anything.  Even with the settings at zero, the map should be "safe", as in boost/timing/fuel are all in tune for stock mode.

now if the settings were changed to 0,9,0, then i can kinda understand there may be a problem. but even then, I think the car would run like pants and just go into limp mode immediately.
« Last Edit: March 28, 2009, 03:07:53 pm by chungster »

Offline RedRobin

  • Just look at my post count
  • ******
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 380
  • -Receive: 442
  • Posts: 16627
  • BIALI Motorsport's Chief Horn Blower
Re: Lean Fuel Issues after 4k rpm on Revo Stage 2+ Ed30
« Reply #32 on: March 28, 2009, 03:05:05 pm »

so JKM reckons VWR have buggered the car when ragging it testing the LSD???


....I doubt very much that JKM are saying that.

Also VWR won't have touched the tuning settings in changing the diff, even if they could.

With all the self-protective engine management systems it's extremely difficult to bugger the car just by 'ragging' it - As you (chungster) also believe.

All the reputable tuners take very particular care not to override the ECU's engine safety measures.


On facebook: https://www.facebook.com/robin.procter.50

Throbbin' Red Mk5 GTI DSG with too many mods to list - Have Fun but Safe Journeys!

Offline illyun

  • Won't Shut up.
  • *****
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 3
  • -Receive: 0
  • Posts: 857
Re: Lean Fuel Issues after 4k rpm on Revo Stage 2+ Ed30
« Reply #33 on: March 28, 2009, 11:08:46 pm »

The Quaife was probably tested by VWR before I picked my car up and naturally, they would have given it some to make sure everything was working ok... 

Context is the key to understanding a sentence and taken, in context I can't see how the above can be interpreted by anyone as 'JKM reckons VWR have buggered the car when ragging it testing the LSD???'  I've used both tuners extensively for work and they have been beyond reproach up to now and all others I have spoken to would say the same.

Clearly, the chain of thought extrapolating back to hwne the issue could have occured is mine - the only thing Keith @ JKM said was that if the car is driven hard, then it may/could cause the issues I have seen (he's not sure 100% himself).  The fact that I identified through VagCom ,when the problem occured and surmised that it was just before I picked up my Ed30 from VWR means that it is my extension of Keith's statement - not JKM blaming anyone.  As for who caused the issue, its hard to say but if anyone is at fault, then its me as I didn't reset the Revo settings.  :embarrassed:  That the fault occured most probably when VWR were testing - quite innocently I have to add -the Quaife is incidental.

Secondly, I clearly said that VWR  would have driven the car hard in order to test the car - the word naturally, means that I would expect them to do that as its a sure way of making sure they have done their job 100%... Why on earth would they know if the Revo settings are not kosher as its not their car and the customer (me) hasn't told them anything...

Offline illyun

  • Won't Shut up.
  • *****
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 3
  • -Receive: 0
  • Posts: 857
Re: Lean Fuel Issues after 4k rpm on Revo Stage 2+ Ed30
« Reply #34 on: March 28, 2009, 11:14:18 pm »
Anyway, rant over.  I do appreciate the comments, but sometimes, things get misinterpreted - wildly sometimes - and it can have unintended reprecussions which is why I had to write the above post.  As for having the settings in 0 0 0, I can understand where Chungster coming from and its something I can't understand.  If it was dangerous, then surely Revo would know and would have a warning with the SP Switch they sell. I'll have to ask Keith to re-explain to my mechanically challenged head on Monday and I might give Revo themselves a call...  Bottom line is, I just want my 350bhp car back  :sad:  :evilgrin:

Offline john_o

  • Just look at my post count
  • ******
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 136
  • -Receive: 108
  • Posts: 2946
    • My Car Blog
Re: Lean Fuel Issues after 4k rpm on Revo Stage 2+ Ed30
« Reply #35 on: March 29, 2009, 04:49:30 am »
the plot thickens as they say  :sad:
I can honestly say JKM certainly are at the top of their game providing reports like that  :happy2:
The FP limiting valve not limiting is unusual to say the least, Im surprised theres no other line of defense for high FP demands other than that valve but then Im no expert. I would be interested to know the tolerances of the injectors as to the headroom of pressure they could be pushed to 'probably' without failure. 130 max normal, 140+ spike is only +8% relatively which wouldnt cause an issue (unless the spikes have been mauch higher than 140...)
(aside from the fact that 130 odd bar is quite silly anyway when you think about it and indicator where todays car tech has come to)

As for REVO 0,0,0 'possibly' being the reason for all this I would be  :confused: , certainly something for revo themselves to answer.
Irrespective of anything else , I would not expect any settings (even wildly irrational ones like 0,9,0) to cause failure. Ultimately the condition would start to occur (lean AFR etc) and the ECU would go into limp mode. The ECU traditionally throws a hairy fit for almost anything out of 'normal params' even on a std car ......
Remember the settings only adjust parameters in a very narrow range, so in theory you cant cause harm....... ? im confused now too lol

One thing to consider, does this mean that once its all fixed, if at some point in the future you accidentally disc the battery (or someone else does) then you go for a thrash (unknown its at 0,0,0)  you knacker another set of injectors and/or risk damage again? surely not?
Its difficult to know which is cause or effect and you end up in circles.

Anyway good to see you are on the way to a resolution  :happy2:
and the open and honest writeups are spot on  :happy2: a wealth of info for us all.

Red ED35 5dr DSG
DEFI boost guage / RTech Stg1 Engine/DSG / PPMk7 front brakes
BLOG | BUILD

Offline garethmk1

  • Always Involved
  • ****
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 2
  • -Receive: 2
  • Posts: 336
    • Email
Re: Lean Fuel Issues after 4k rpm on Revo Stage 2+ Ed30
« Reply #36 on: March 29, 2009, 01:48:56 pm »
Hope this gets sorted for you.

On a secondary note - how professional of a garage to issue you with a text format diagnoses of your vehicle's problems.  I mean that is second to none.  Very very proffesional, very impressed JKM  :happy2:


Mk5 Golf GTi Edition 30 No:- 2101, 3Dr, Tornado Red, Rear Tints, RCD510 & Sound Pack, Arm Rest
Mk1 Golf GTi 16v Helios Blue, Too Many Mods To List .... MY First Car ! Owned Since 1996 !!! NEARLY READY !!!!!

Offline KRL

  • Won't Shut up.
  • *****
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 25
  • -Receive: 29
  • Posts: 619
Re: Lean Fuel Issues after 4k rpm on Revo Stage 2+ Ed30
« Reply #37 on: March 29, 2009, 05:44:41 pm »
Glad to hear about the progress Illyun.  Very impressed with JKM too.

Did you ask Keith at JKM about the AFR protection mapping and Revo?

If the settings being at 0 0 0 and the car being driven hard with those settings is the root cause as to the damage to the injectors etc I'd be really interested to understand why? IIRC setiings of 0 0 0 are not even stock levels, for example boost 1 would be a stock level.  Please correct me if i'm wrong.

I know that with REVO their stock map is REVO's own interpreatation of the stock map not the actual stock map.
« Last Edit: March 29, 2009, 05:53:37 pm by KRL »

Offline stealthwolf

  • Just look at my post count
  • ******
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 306
  • -Receive: 291
  • Posts: 7836
  • ED30 No.1412
    • Email
Re: Lean Fuel Issues after 4k rpm on Revo Stage 2+ Ed30
« Reply #38 on: March 29, 2009, 08:46:45 pm »
so JKM reckons VWR have buggered the car when ragging it testing the LSD?
I think that bit could have been phrased better. It wasn't VWR's fault the remap was reset.

On a secondary note - how professional of a garage to issue you with a text format diagnoses of your vehicle's problems.
+1. The most I've ever had is a handwritten scrawl stating in as few words as possible what needs fixing/replacing.

The GTI isn't just a machine. It's very much a living, breathing thing.

Offline chungster

  • Just look at my post count
  • ******
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 6
  • -Receive: 33
  • Posts: 1963
Re: Lean Fuel Issues after 4k rpm on Revo Stage 2+ Ed30
« Reply #39 on: March 29, 2009, 08:55:49 pm »
like john_o says, REVO as far as i know, builds in a safety margin to allow for "muppet" settings as i'd like to call it. I think i did read somewhere tho that they do advise you take care when changing the settings via the SPS switch, and take advice from a REVO dealer should you be unsure as to what settings to use. 

the REVO stock map actually runs less boost than VW's own 200ps map on my car. I get max 5psi of boost in that mode.

Offline cmdrfire

  • Just look at my post count
  • ******
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 0
  • -Receive: 14
  • Posts: 1359
    • Commander Fire - my blog
    • Email
Re: Lean Fuel Issues after 4k rpm on Revo Stage 2+ Ed30
« Reply #40 on: March 30, 2009, 11:23:51 am »
like john_o says, REVO as far as i know, builds in a safety margin to allow for "muppet" settings as i'd like to call it. I think i did read somewhere tho that they do advise you take care when changing the settings via the SPS switch, and take advice from a REVO dealer should you be unsure as to what settings to use. 

the REVO stock map actually runs less boost than VW's own 200ps map on my car. I get max 5psi of boost in that mode.

Wee chungster! o/

/OT

Offline JKM

  • Trader - 2014
  • Always Involved
  • *
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 1
  • -Receive: 12
  • Posts: 98
  • JKM Performance
    • Email
Re: Lean Fuel Issues after 4k rpm on Revo Stage 2+ Ed30
« Reply #41 on: March 30, 2009, 01:30:32 pm »
Hi guys,

I have just been informed of this thread by my colleague and I think that there is some confusion!
I just thought that I would quickly reply whilst I’m having my lunch (Very busy here today)  :happy2:

I only enquired if the battery had been disconnected as the REVO settings where observed to be different to the last visit to JKM and they where consistent with what I would expect with a battery being disconnected.
The fuel consumption was reported to be getting worst – if the timing where set back to 0 this would reduce engine torque, with boost on 0 this would reduce torque as well and with fuel on 0 this would increase the fuel consumption as a richer AFR would be requested when under load.

Please note that the REVO settings following a battery disconnect are SAFE, not dangerous  :smiley:
It would be worrying if the default settings where 9,9,9 – but they are not – so please don’t worry.

JKM are not blaming anyone for this fault, or the potential of running on the default REVO settings, these are complex engines being pushed beyond their manufactures design criteria and sometimes things will go wrong.
I am confident that we will get to the bottom of the issue shortly.

I must get back to work now as ive finished my very nice Chicken roll  :grin:

Kind Regards -

Keith
The Premier VAG Servicing, Diagnostic & DYNO DYNAMICS ROLLING ROAD Tuning Centre
VAG 2.0 TFSI Performance upgrade Specialists
REVO | Superchips & Bluefin software | Emerald K3 ECU Specialists
Visit the JKM website - www.jkm.org.uk

Offline john_o

  • Just look at my post count
  • ******
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 136
  • -Receive: 108
  • Posts: 2946
    • My Car Blog
Re: Lean Fuel Issues after 4k rpm on Revo Stage 2+ Ed30
« Reply #42 on: March 30, 2009, 02:11:33 pm »
thanks for taking the time to come on and update the thread Keith  :happy2:
we all await with bated breath on why this has all happened  :happy2:
(no pressure then  :grin:)
Red ED35 5dr DSG
DEFI boost guage / RTech Stg1 Engine/DSG / PPMk7 front brakes
BLOG | BUILD

Offline chungster

  • Just look at my post count
  • ******
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 6
  • -Receive: 33
  • Posts: 1963
Re: Lean Fuel Issues after 4k rpm on Revo Stage 2+ Ed30
« Reply #43 on: March 30, 2009, 06:16:57 pm »
like john_o says, REVO as far as i know, builds in a safety margin to allow for "muppet" settings as i'd like to call it. I think i did read somewhere tho that they do advise you take care when changing the settings via the SPS switch, and take advice from a REVO dealer should you be unsure as to what settings to use. 

the REVO stock map actually runs less boost than VW's own 200ps map on my car. I get max 5psi of boost in that mode.

Wee chungster! o/

/OT

Neooooooooooooo!  how's it going matey?

Offline illyun

  • Won't Shut up.
  • *****
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 3
  • -Receive: 0
  • Posts: 857
Re: Lean Fuel Issues after 4k rpm on Revo Stage 2+ Ed30
« Reply #44 on: March 31, 2009, 01:08:39 pm »
Thanks for clearing that up Keith  :happy2:  The car is now booked in for next Monday - Wednesday so hopefully, the problem will be resolved... maybe :rolleye: