Fitting R32 brakes

[vRS Carl]

Apologies my bad Dave, I know you use our (HEL) stuff  to make your own custom spec lines and buy through a dealer of ours.  (Same people HEL/Dubtek, the latter is just a personal offshoot owing to my own interest in VAG world)

And Dom no there is certainly no inner 'braid' on a rubber OEM hose. Sometimes a cotton reinforcement within the hose wall itself, but not specifically a braided section. Even if there was the fact that the rubber would still expand and contract under pressure would still mean you'd experience the same problem.

Surely if that was the case every OEM car would be experiencing the same thing? Surely there would be a mass recall due to owners complaining of a "Spongy" pedal.

I understand what you are saying with regards the rubbber. However i think you are over exaggerating this so called problem. There are plenty of people on this forum and other forums that i go on who are using OEM brake lines and i've never heard anyone complain of any type of spongy pedal feel unless they have been on a track. Usually that has been from people who have been on standard 312's and then it's more likely to be fade rather than sponginess.

Does any manufacturer fit braided hoses as standard? Even the RS Audi's have Rubber hoses and they are cars which have 400+ bhp!

Maybe you should have a read through this thread again

http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,14411.0.html

[daz_pd]

surely the need for performance lines would be for track use only? you shouldnt really need them on the road guys...

[Dubtek]

Whats this a hose witchhunt with a braided hose manufacturer who's merely stated the advantages of fitting braided over rubber when changing, and NOT suggested anything else?! 

Not once have I said that people have complained about spongey pedals (merely said that fitting braided reduces this), but seen as you mention fade, how about other problems induced partly by rubber hoses such as rubber absorbing water vapour into the brake fluid which in turn affects the fluid, one of a few reasons for brake fade - Brake fluid is hydroscopic which means it has an affinity to water and absorbs water from the air. When brake fluid absorbs water it’s boiling point drops rapidly. (Taken from our own brake doctor section of our site - http://www.helperformance.com/brake-doctor/index.php?page=5#Reducing fluid fade

Seems to be alot of confusion of this spongy pedal business, perhaps the industry term for this pedal feeling is a little overawed and is making people think its this massive amount of play in the pedal, its not at all - Simple question I'd ask people is do you really all have brake pedals that give you instant pressure, the minute you put ANY pressure on the brake pedal no matter how slight you get instant braking response? I'd say no, in which case you have experienced the 'spongy' feel, as slight as that may be on a road car to some people.

However, not interested in the continuation of this 'ive not got a spongey pedal business', as its being totally over egged, so i'm out from here....

[Dubtek]

Dave - Can you send me a picture to ben.viner@helperformance.com and I'll take a look, or drop us a sample in the post?

Always looking to improve kits/specs/fittings, which is why we are now looking to supply new bracket clips/circlips to hold the hoses in place correctly with every kit now, off the back of good feedback from dealers about people such as yourself and the kits you compile to ensure you always have a happy customer, not one who's had to fiddle around getting hoses to fit right 

Ahh Ok....hence my confusion...

Still waiting on a correct fitting for rear hoses to get them to fit  into the caliper - if you need a sample let me know, be worthwhile doing as they're rife through VAG B5/B7 A4, A6. Mk5 Platform TT's

 

[vRS Carl]

Whats this a hose witchhunt with a braided hose manufacturer who's merely stated the advantages of fitting braided over rubber when changing, and NOT suggested anything else?! 

Not once have I said that people have complained about spongey pedals (merely said that fitting braided reduces this), but seen as you mention fade, how about other problems induced partly by rubber hoses such as rubber absorbing water vapour into the brake fluid which in turn affects the fluid, one of a few reasons for brake fade - Brake fluid is hydroscopic which means it has an affinity to water and absorbs water from the air. When brake fluid absorbs water it’s boiling point drops rapidly. (Taken from our own brake doctor section of our site - http://www.helperformance.com/brake-doctor/index.php?page=5#Reducing fluid fade

Seems to be alot of confusion of this spongy pedal business, perhaps the industry term for this pedal feeling is a little overawed and is making people think its this massive amount of play in the pedal, its not at all - Simple question I'd ask people is do you really all have brake pedals that give you instant pressure, the minute you put ANY pressure on the brake pedal no matter how slight you get instant braking response? I'd say no, in which case you have experienced the 'spongy' feel, as slight as that may be on a road car to some people.

However, not interested in the continuation of this 'ive not got a spongey pedal business', as its being totally over egged, so i'm out from here....

Ok to put it simply for you. I think your talking utter crap now. Not about the technical aspect but about this fabled expanding OEM hoses. If OEM hoses where that bad then I'm quite sure manufacturers would be made to fit braided hoses as OEM by law. Given the fact the hoses is the ONLY link between the brakes working or not. No hose no brakes its that simple. Yes I know there is other parts to the braking system but the hoses are the critical link. So in my mind your trying to advise someone to buy a product for a road car that it is not needed. If they were going for track work then yes i would fully agree but on a road car no.

What about the problems with braided hoses like inability to see slow leaks? As I said earlier it can't be as bad as you are saying otherwise all these 400+ bhp / near 2 Ton RS Audis would have Braided as standard along with other manufacturers of high performance cars

To answer your question about pedal feel, yes soon as i touch the pedal on mine pressure is applied to the brakes.