Tfsi Mikes Money Pit :: AKS built Cupra :: TTE420 :: Rtech Tuned

[Tfsi_Mike]

Dave recommended 1144 (road) and 1155 (track) a long while back, but I so weary about mixing & swapping now.

I reckon the AP / 362's will be fantastic. Shame I didn't do it the 1st time around :-(

[tony_danza]

It's not the pads, it's using the wrong pads for your setup's working temp ranges.

Know your setup, know what to buy 

Various ways of doing this, from thermo-graphic heat paints to stickers. e.g:

http://www.demon-tweeks.co.uk/karting/pyrometers-temperature-indicators/a-p-racing-temperature-indication-strips

I am not sure this is true. My 4-2s were fine on the road, didn't notice anything. Then I went to Mallory Park for a trackday,  I had to basically sack off the day because of horrendous pad build up. I cannot explain how horrible it was.... Eventually it went away after a few thousand miles of road driving (for the most parts) and at around 1/2 pad life they started behaving themselves (as Rich has found).

I drive my car exactly the same way, with the PMUs that I have now as I did with the Pagids (in terms of daily driving pootling around and the odd B-road blast and trackday) and yet I've not had a SINGLE PROBLEM with the PMUs in terms of pad build up, vibration, or anything like that, but the Pagids 4-2s were crap. Yet the PMUs have a higher maximum temperature range. So logic tells us that the PMUs would have issues with cold / daily driving type use... which they don't.

Online we see a lot of reports of build up / vibration with Pagid RS4-2s as well. I don't care what anyone says, the brake set up is brilliant. The Pagid 4-2 pads are sh*t and I'm glad Alex is phasing them out.

I don't understand your reply. The 4-2s were OK on the road because you didn't burst their operating range, you did a track day, took them past their range and they promptly sh*t their resin all over your discs. The resin you should have all burnt out if you'd bedded them properly in the first place. I did the same, I'm not being a tit with you.

They have a very fussing bedding procedure, in that respect they're a pain in the arse, but if followed correctly and used in the right application of car & brakes, they're fine. The chap from AKS has clearly done it right and manages his brakes accordingly to suit.... by braking properly, which most of us don't.

Now, I'd imagine if he took them beyond their capability, they'd simply fade - as there's no resin left to piss out. Yours no doubt would have been the same now you'd got the resin out of yours, albeit the hard way.

Sounds like they glaze a little from light use, that's typical of some pads and a quick kicking usually sorts that out and cleans the muck.

I still maintain they're not really suitable for the car's weight, but you could work around it. The main problem here is user error.

You also can't compare the hot/cold performance of an entirely different pad IMO.

[rich83]

I had M1144 on my old S3 brakes and they squealed like no ones business.

[Dan648v]

I run the m1144 on my nqsbbk kit and they used to howl! Not so much now so i won't disturb them haha

[xjay1337]

It's not the pads, it's using the wrong pads for your setup's working temp ranges.

Know your setup, know what to buy 

Various ways of doing this, from thermo-graphic heat paints to stickers. e.g:

http://www.demon-tweeks.co.uk/karting/pyrometers-temperature-indicators/a-p-racing-temperature-indication-strips

I am not sure this is true. My 4-2s were fine on the road, didn't notice anything. Then I went to Mallory Park for a trackday,  I had to basically sack off the day because of horrendous pad build up. I cannot explain how horrible it was.... Eventually it went away after a few thousand miles of road driving (for the most parts) and at around 1/2 pad life they started behaving themselves (as Rich has found).

I drive my car exactly the same way, with the PMUs that I have now as I did with the Pagids (in terms of daily driving pootling around and the odd B-road blast and trackday) and yet I've not had a SINGLE PROBLEM with the PMUs in terms of pad build up, vibration, or anything like that, but the Pagids 4-2s were crap. Yet the PMUs have a higher maximum temperature range. So logic tells us that the PMUs would have issues with cold / daily driving type use... which they don't.

Online we see a lot of reports of build up / vibration with Pagid RS4-2s as well. I don't care what anyone says, the brake set up is brilliant. The Pagid 4-2 pads are sh*t and I'm glad Alex is phasing them out.

I don't understand your reply. The 4-2s were OK on the road because you didn't burst their operating range, you did a track day, took them past their range and they promptly sh*t their resin all over your discs. The resin you should have all burnt out if you'd bedded them properly in the first place. I did the same, I'm not being a tit with you.

They have a very fussing bedding procedure, in that respect they're a pain in the arse, but if followed correctly and used in the right application of car & brakes, they're fine. The chap from AKS has clearly done it right and manages his brakes accordingly to suit.... by braking properly, which most of us don't.

Now, I'd imagine if he took them beyond their capability, they'd simply fade - as there's no resin left to piss out. Yours no doubt would have been the same now you'd got the resin out of yours, albeit the hard way.

Sounds like they glaze a little from light use, that's typical of some pads and a quick kicking usually sorts that out and cleans the muck.

I still maintain they're not really suitable for the car's weight, but you could work around it. The main problem here is user error.

You also can't compare the hot/cold performance of an entirely different pad IMO.

Alex bedded my pads in. as best he could given the time constraints I suspect.

I get the issue with the resin and what not  - but the point is that I've never had such a finicky set of brake pads in my life!!!!
I do not understand why PMUs , which have a higher operating temperature (not by much but they do) give me absolutely zero problems in the same driving conditions and work the same (if not slightly better) when cold.

Logic tells us if we have a brake set up with a high maximum operating temperature then the pads should be less impressive when cold (outside of that operating window).
i maintain the 4-2 pads are crap and no-one should buy them. stick with the PMU or try the pagid rs29 which reports to be a lot better they also have an operating window more in keeping with the pmu.

i doubt i cooked the brakes on the track day. it was wet. there was zero fade . no brake smell. they're just crap pads 
as you say perhaps not the best choice for our cars braking set up / weight etc.

[tony_danza]

I reckon you could easily cook a pad on a wet day.

A higher operating range doesn't always mean poor cold performance, especially with high quality pads. In contrast I know someone who smashed up his car at the end of his road on EBC yellows with his foot pushing through the firewall and zero retardation.

Regarding the difference, RS4-2 is a carbon based pad, I'm fairly sure your PMUs are Ceramic?? Totally different characteristics.

[s3dubbin]

I ran 1144's on my s3 8p and they squealed like hell, clean them out disc/pad and they would last 100m and then come back again.

Stevie.

[xjay1337]

I reckon you could easily cook a pad on a wet day.

A higher operating range doesn't always mean poor cold performance, especially with high quality pads. In contrast I know someone who smashed up his car at the end of his road on EBC yellows with his foot pushing through the firewall and zero retardation.

Regarding the difference, RS4-2 is a carbon based pad, I'm fairly sure your PMUs are Ceramic?? Totally different characteristics.

That is true, yes the PMUs are ceramic i believe. the dust is awful :)

[rich83]

I think we are finding that you cannot have everything 

[xjay1337]

I think you can

the PMUs are great (aside from heavy dusting).
I suspect the Pagid rs29s are also brilliant by going from owner reviews.

The lesson we are learning is "pagid rs42 is crap"

[Tfsi_Mike]

I agree for average modder / tuner / occasional track day go-er, with Golf, Scirocco, S3, Leon, blues are turd

[vRSAlex]

I think you can

the PMUs are great (aside from heavy dusting).
I suspect the Pagid rs29s are also brilliant by going from owner reviews.

The lesson we are learning is "pagid rs42 is crap"

RS29's kill discs.  They also crumble.  I'm not a fan of them.  Also very noisy.

PMU everytime imo.  The dust is fine if you remember to use wheel sealant on a freshly painted set of rims!

[tony_danza]

Interesting. This did a couple of years of hard abuse on RS29s with none of the things you mention. Guess it depends on the application.

[xjay1337]

I think you can

the PMUs are great (aside from heavy dusting).
I suspect the Pagid rs29s are also brilliant by going from owner reviews.

The lesson we are learning is "pagid rs42 is crap"

RS29's kill discs.  They also crumble.  I'm not a fan of them.  Also very noisy.

PMU everytime imo.  The dust is fine if you remember to use wheel sealant on a freshly painted set of rims!

I'm not sure even a ceramic coating would help mate!

My wheels are basically rusty now 
Could also be a slightly dodgy powder coat, never had this before for sure.

[Tfsi_Mike]

Small update...

Booked in 2 May with Alex at AKS for;

Collect 362mm AP rotors
Pagid Rs29's
Gearbox strengthen mods
Helix twin plate organic clutch
(My 1000 mile SMF Helix paddle clutch will be for sale)
Fit oil cooler kit