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Author Topic: Tfsi Mikes Money Pit :: AKS built Cupra :: TTE420 :: Rtech Tuned  (Read 732009 times)

Offline Tfsi_Mike

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Re: Tfsi Mikes Money Pit :: AKS built Cupra :: TTE420 :: Rtech Tuned
« Reply #2955 on: July 13, 2016, 11:59:26 am »

Dave recommended 1144 (road) and 1155 (track) a long while back, but I so weary about mixing & swapping now.

I reckon the AP / 362's will be fantastic. Shame I didn't do it the 1st time around :-(

Offline tony_danza

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Re: Tfsi Mikes Money Pit :: AKS built Cupra :: TTE420 :: Rtech Tuned
« Reply #2956 on: July 13, 2016, 02:28:32 pm »
It's not the pads, it's using the wrong pads for your setup's working temp ranges.

Know your setup, know what to buy  :happy2:

Various ways of doing this, from thermo-graphic heat paints to stickers. e.g:

http://www.demon-tweeks.co.uk/karting/pyrometers-temperature-indicators/a-p-racing-temperature-indication-strips

I am not sure this is true. My 4-2s were fine on the road, didn't notice anything. Then I went to Mallory Park for a trackday,  I had to basically sack off the day because of horrendous pad build up. I cannot explain how horrible it was.... Eventually it went away after a few thousand miles of road driving (for the most parts) and at around 1/2 pad life they started behaving themselves (as Rich has found).

I drive my car exactly the same way, with the PMUs that I have now as I did with the Pagids (in terms of daily driving pootling around and the odd B-road blast and trackday) and yet I've not had a SINGLE PROBLEM with the PMUs in terms of pad build up, vibration, or anything like that, but the Pagids 4-2s were crap. Yet the PMUs have a higher maximum temperature range. So logic tells us that the PMUs would have issues with cold / daily driving type use... which they don't.

Online we see a lot of reports of build up / vibration with Pagid RS4-2s as well. I don't care what anyone says, the brake set up is brilliant. The Pagid 4-2 pads are sh*t and I'm glad Alex is phasing them out.

I don't understand your reply. The 4-2s were OK on the road because you didn't burst their operating range, you did a track day, took them past their range and they promptly sh*t their resin all over your discs. The resin you should have all burnt out if you'd bedded them properly in the first place. I did the same, I'm not being a tit with you.

They have a very fussing bedding procedure, in that respect they're a pain in the arse, but if followed correctly and used in the right application of car & brakes, they're fine. The chap from AKS has clearly done it right and manages his brakes accordingly to suit.... by braking properly, which most of us don't.

Now, I'd imagine if he took them beyond their capability, they'd simply fade - as there's no resin left to piss out. Yours no doubt would have been the same now you'd got the resin out of yours, albeit the hard way.

Sounds like they glaze a little from light use, that's typical of some pads and a quick kicking usually sorts that out and cleans the muck.

I still maintain they're not really suitable for the car's weight, but you could work around it. The main problem here is user error.

You also can't compare the hot/cold performance of an entirely different pad IMO.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2016, 03:41:52 pm by tony_danza »
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Offline rich83

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Re: Tfsi Mikes Money Pit :: AKS built Cupra :: TTE420 :: Rtech Tuned
« Reply #2957 on: July 13, 2016, 07:49:36 pm »
I had M1144 on my old S3 brakes and they squealed like no ones business.

Offline Dan648v

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Re: Tfsi Mikes Money Pit :: AKS built Cupra :: TTE420 :: Rtech Tuned
« Reply #2958 on: July 14, 2016, 07:05:43 am »
I run the m1144 on my nqsbbk kit and they used to howl! Not so much now so i won't disturb them haha
Revo Stage 2+ Edition 30 No.1089 with added carbon

Offline xjay1337

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Re: Tfsi Mikes Money Pit :: AKS built Cupra :: TTE420 :: Rtech Tuned
« Reply #2959 on: July 14, 2016, 09:23:12 am »
It's not the pads, it's using the wrong pads for your setup's working temp ranges.

Know your setup, know what to buy  :happy2:

Various ways of doing this, from thermo-graphic heat paints to stickers. e.g:

http://www.demon-tweeks.co.uk/karting/pyrometers-temperature-indicators/a-p-racing-temperature-indication-strips

I am not sure this is true. My 4-2s were fine on the road, didn't notice anything. Then I went to Mallory Park for a trackday,  I had to basically sack off the day because of horrendous pad build up. I cannot explain how horrible it was.... Eventually it went away after a few thousand miles of road driving (for the most parts) and at around 1/2 pad life they started behaving themselves (as Rich has found).

I drive my car exactly the same way, with the PMUs that I have now as I did with the Pagids (in terms of daily driving pootling around and the odd B-road blast and trackday) and yet I've not had a SINGLE PROBLEM with the PMUs in terms of pad build up, vibration, or anything like that, but the Pagids 4-2s were crap. Yet the PMUs have a higher maximum temperature range. So logic tells us that the PMUs would have issues with cold / daily driving type use... which they don't.

Online we see a lot of reports of build up / vibration with Pagid RS4-2s as well. I don't care what anyone says, the brake set up is brilliant. The Pagid 4-2 pads are sh*t and I'm glad Alex is phasing them out.

I don't understand your reply. The 4-2s were OK on the road because you didn't burst their operating range, you did a track day, took them past their range and they promptly sh*t their resin all over your discs. The resin you should have all burnt out if you'd bedded them properly in the first place. I did the same, I'm not being a tit with you.

They have a very fussing bedding procedure, in that respect they're a pain in the arse, but if followed correctly and used in the right application of car & brakes, they're fine. The chap from AKS has clearly done it right and manages his brakes accordingly to suit.... by braking properly, which most of us don't.

Now, I'd imagine if he took them beyond their capability, they'd simply fade - as there's no resin left to piss out. Yours no doubt would have been the same now you'd got the resin out of yours, albeit the hard way.

Sounds like they glaze a little from light use, that's typical of some pads and a quick kicking usually sorts that out and cleans the muck.

I still maintain they're not really suitable for the car's weight, but you could work around it. The main problem here is user error.

You also can't compare the hot/cold performance of an entirely different pad IMO.

Alex bedded my pads in. as best he could given the time constraints I suspect.

I get the issue with the resin and what not  - but the point is that I've never had such a finicky set of brake pads in my life!!!!
I do not understand why PMUs , which have a higher operating temperature (not by much but they do) give me absolutely zero problems in the same driving conditions and work the same (if not slightly better) when cold.

Logic tells us if we have a brake set up with a high maximum operating temperature then the pads should be less impressive when cold (outside of that operating window).
i maintain the 4-2 pads are crap and no-one should buy them. stick with the PMU or try the pagid rs29 which reports to be a lot better they also have an operating window more in keeping with the pmu.

i doubt i cooked the brakes on the track day. it was wet. there was zero fade . no brake smell. they're just crap pads  :signLOL: :signLOL:
as you say perhaps not the best choice for our cars braking set up / weight etc.

Offline tony_danza

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Re: Tfsi Mikes Money Pit :: AKS built Cupra :: TTE420 :: Rtech Tuned
« Reply #2960 on: July 14, 2016, 10:12:54 am »
I reckon you could easily cook a pad on a wet day.

A higher operating range doesn't always mean poor cold performance, especially with high quality pads. In contrast I know someone who smashed up his car at the end of his road on EBC yellows with his foot pushing through the firewall and zero retardation.

Regarding the difference, RS4-2 is a carbon based pad, I'm fairly sure your PMUs are Ceramic?? Totally different characteristics.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2016, 11:30:28 am by tony_danza »
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Offline s3dubbin

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Re: Tfsi Mikes Money Pit :: AKS built Cupra :: TTE420 :: Rtech Tuned
« Reply #2961 on: July 14, 2016, 10:39:46 am »
I ran 1144's on my s3 8p and they squealed like hell, clean them out disc/pad and they would last 100m and then come back again.

Stevie.

Offline xjay1337

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Re: Tfsi Mikes Money Pit :: AKS built Cupra :: TTE420 :: Rtech Tuned
« Reply #2962 on: July 14, 2016, 11:35:03 am »
I reckon you could easily cook a pad on a wet day.

A higher operating range doesn't always mean poor cold performance, especially with high quality pads. In contrast I know someone who smashed up his car at the end of his road on EBC yellows with his foot pushing through the firewall and zero retardation.

Regarding the difference, RS4-2 is a carbon based pad, I'm fairly sure your PMUs are Ceramic?? Totally different characteristics.

That is true, yes the PMUs are ceramic i believe. the dust is awful :)

Offline rich83

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Re: Tfsi Mikes Money Pit :: AKS built Cupra :: TTE420 :: Rtech Tuned
« Reply #2963 on: July 14, 2016, 10:08:58 pm »
I think we are finding that you cannot have everything  :signLOL:

Offline xjay1337

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Re: Tfsi Mikes Money Pit :: AKS built Cupra :: TTE420 :: Rtech Tuned
« Reply #2964 on: July 15, 2016, 12:31:18 pm »
I think you can

the PMUs are great (aside from heavy dusting).
I suspect the Pagid rs29s are also brilliant by going from owner reviews.

The lesson we are learning is "pagid rs42 is crap"

Offline Tfsi_Mike

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Re: Tfsi Mikes Money Pit :: AKS built Cupra :: TTE420 :: Rtech Tuned
« Reply #2965 on: July 15, 2016, 01:24:22 pm »

I agree for average modder / tuner / occasional track day go-er, with Golf, Scirocco, S3, Leon, blues are turd

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Re: Tfsi Mikes Money Pit :: AKS built Cupra :: TTE420 :: Rtech Tuned
« Reply #2966 on: July 16, 2016, 06:26:43 pm »
I think you can

the PMUs are great (aside from heavy dusting).
I suspect the Pagid rs29s are also brilliant by going from owner reviews.

The lesson we are learning is "pagid rs42 is crap"

RS29's kill discs.  They also crumble.  I'm not a fan of them.  Also very noisy.

PMU everytime imo.  The dust is fine if you remember to use wheel sealant on a freshly painted set of rims!
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Offline tony_danza

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Re: Tfsi Mikes Money Pit :: AKS built Cupra :: TTE420 :: Rtech Tuned
« Reply #2967 on: July 16, 2016, 09:33:17 pm »
Interesting. This did a couple of years of hard abuse on RS29s with none of the things you mention. Guess it depends on the application.

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Offline xjay1337

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Re: Tfsi Mikes Money Pit :: AKS built Cupra :: TTE420 :: Rtech Tuned
« Reply #2968 on: July 18, 2016, 09:24:21 am »
I think you can

the PMUs are great (aside from heavy dusting).
I suspect the Pagid rs29s are also brilliant by going from owner reviews.

The lesson we are learning is "pagid rs42 is crap"

RS29's kill discs.  They also crumble.  I'm not a fan of them.  Also very noisy.

PMU everytime imo.  The dust is fine if you remember to use wheel sealant on a freshly painted set of rims!

I'm not sure even a ceramic coating would help mate!

My wheels are basically rusty now  :signLOL: :signLOL:
Could also be a slightly dodgy powder coat, never had this before for sure.


Offline Tfsi_Mike

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Re: Tfsi Mikes Money Pit :: AKS built Cupra :: TTE420 :: Rtech Tuned
« Reply #2969 on: March 04, 2017, 06:23:19 pm »

Small update...

Booked in 2 May with Alex at AKS for;

Collect 362mm AP rotors
Pagid Rs29's
Gearbox strengthen mods
Helix twin plate organic clutch
(My 1000 mile SMF Helix paddle clutch will be for sale)
Fit oil cooler kit

 :party: