Sy's vRS APR/LOBA Hybrid - Now replaced with a proper car!

[Janner_Sy]

It's a mm more that it usually sweeps, it won't make a difference.

would it not be about 3.5 mm extra if its 7mm larger diameter

[DaveB@Vagbremtechnic]

I'm surprised at the 1144s being that crap to be honest, got a stack of brembo 323s and also got bells for 330mm AP discs all in stock think I've got some PMU pads too.

I'll straighten out the prices if the 1144s were crap, there very little difference in 44 and 55 from memory its about 3% added brass but it makes all the difference. m1144/55/66 are all cold pressed so therefore cheap to buy but also VERY funny about how they're bedded in, they're not for everybody but surprised more than anything else that you rated them after DS2500 which is a fast road pad.

. Don't forget PAGID MINTEX TEXTAR all the TMD group there's four or five different companies within the group, I'll tell you right now they're not doing 5 different sets of R&D. I've had people want to come out if Pagid Sport compound and buy 1144......not really worthwhile doing that really.

Can't get my head around Rs29 on road, I'd take 14 or 4-4 orange and some ducting anyday especially if you're on expensive discs

[Beddie]

I'm surprised at the 1144s being that crap to be honest

Me too, mine were braking like a champ all day at Spa! 

[Janner_Sy]

I'm surprised at the 1144s being that crap to be honest,

I had them on my Octavia and they werent too bad I used them at the ring but in all honesty i never used to cane it down the straights and used to lift off early because i knew my brakes, being stock would only overheat if i pushed them so compared to this time where i really used them hard over a very short track with not much cooling opportunity.

Got a stack of brembo 323s and also got bells for 330mm AP discs all in stock think I've got some PMU pads too.

would you expect an issue with "lipping" if i go for 330mm discs due to the extra 3.5mm radius.  I presume you have rotors as well?  The discs have plenty of meat on them at the moment, so its probably not going to be required for a while.

Pad wise they are the Mk1 Cupra R (Brembo) pads.

I'll straighten out the prices if the 1144s were crap, there very little difference in 44 and 55 from memory its about 3% added brass but it makes all the difference. m1144/55/66 are all cold pressed so therefore cheap to buy but also VERY funny about how they're bedded in, they're not for everybody but surprised more than anything else that you rated them after DS2500 which is a fast road pad.

Ive been searching the net this last night or so for opinions on the M1144.  Seems alot of people feel the DS2500 is the stronger pad.  Most seem to think the M1155 is a closer match to the DS2500, an that the M1144 is more closely comparable to a DS Performance pad.

I used this which after searching many sights appeared to be the Mintex recommended bedding in procedure.  http://www.bgdevelopments.co.uk/technical-tips/pad-bedding-in/mintex.html

BEDDING IN MINTEX “M” TYPE MATERIAL
M1144 /  M1155 /  M1166 /  M1177

1. Clean discs with brake cleaner or other solvent.
2.  Apply  3 to 4 light applications of the brake from 30mph down to 0mph
then......
M1144:    6 / 7  steady applications 70mph down to 30mph
M1155:    8 / 9  steady applications 90mph down to 30mph
M1166:    9 / 10  steady applications 90mph down to 30mph
M1177:    9 / 10  steady applications 90mph down to 30mph

. Don't forget PAGID MINTEX TEXTAR all the TMD group there's four or five different companies within the group, I'll tell you right now they're not doing 5 different sets of R&D. I've had people want to come out if Pagid Sport compound and buy 1144......not really worthwhile doing that really.

Can't get my head around Rs29 on road, I'd take 14 or 4-4 orange and some ducting anyday especially if you're on expensive discs

So basically same pads with different names/prices no doubt?  Similar to the Tarox Corsa & DS2500 which are identical compounds.

Im thinking DS3000 as an everyday pad, or keep the M1144s for the minute and then just buy some RS29s and swap them for trackdays.

[rex]

RS 4-4 Orange work well in all conditions (I have used them over the past 2 winters and winters are harsher in Romania than in the UK...)

[Janner_Sy]

HOw does a RS4-4 Orange rate to say a DS3000 or RS29?

[rex]

I have no idea. They are miles better than the DS2500 both in the cold and during the track days. So I would suspect that they are better than DS3000 in the cold (no idea about a trackday comparison).
Probably the next pad will be (when these wear out), for me, RS29, because I want to see how they are.

[tony_danza]

Can't get my head around Rs29 on road, I'd take 14 or 4-4 orange and some ducting anyday especially if you're on expensive discs

Fair enough, but I've found something that works for me and I'm happy with the cost to benefit. They perform from stone cold to glowing hot, they don't make a sound, they don't billow dust and they last way longer than regular pads (being an endurance pad).

Basically I refuse to have sh*t brakes, and if that means running RS29s 365, then I'm happy to pay the extra. For what it's worth, they didn't make a dent in the old 135i's discs - I guess it depends on how good the metal is? I can see how they'd munch through an ECP special.

Sy, Votex used to run a MKI Cupra R as a instructor/ARDS tool. In all the stuff they tried, they found Mintex F4R worked best. They're very harsh and bad mannered, but if you want something to run just on track, they may be the ticket. I doubt they'd cause you any problems mixing pads on the same disc either.

[Poverty]

Mmmm heard a lot of different opinions on rs29 in regards to driving on the road. I know that even jonny has moved away from rs29's on his car to Pagid blues as he says you don't really get them up to heat.

I'm happy with my m1155's will give the Pagid blues a try next once I get daveb's disc upgrade. I could ask jonny what he thought about my m1155's too if that helps, but dunno if he ever pushed them.

[tony_danza]

Ceramics are criticised for missing that initial bite and feel - I imagine he's running massive calipers too, so I can see why he'd prefer the 4-2s. They're a fantastic pad, but weren't available in my fitment.

[Poverty]

horses for courses, suppose  its really hard to compare when everyone has different setups! Could be why mintex 1155 works so well for me, as im running alot of pad with my 8 pots

[DaveB@Vagbremtechnic]

Any F series pad are hot pressed and completely capable above 250 degrees.

mikes right they'd go straight over the top of 1144...

Just don't expect to brake for a motorway junction and leave at the exit you planned

F series are widely used BTCC .

And let's remember with a LOT of race teams its all,about the money if you tried to sell some Rs29s to some race teams they'd laugh in your face. In fact can't think of a F series pad that's over £200.

The complete cost of expensive crossover pads is making them work at low and high temps if you take the road bit out of the equation its actually dead easy to make pads that work well on track at high temps.

And one more thing RS19 and RS29 are in essence the same pad Rs29s are the endurance version so generally in the case of motorsport Calipers come a few mm thicker and generally are a harder compound which wears the discs more.

The sepang blue TTRS that's caged and stripped that the TT Shop are running uses M1166 in the 8 piston / AP floating setup, brakes reported as "awesome". Squeak like a barstewards though.

The old sweats I work with still remember the day when asbestos was banned......brake fade due to pads in Motorsport is only a 30 year old issue according to them...

@POV

Jonnys Pads that came out were like brand new, he had bedded them properly which cooked off the pad face and made them hard wearing....seriously if I'd have painted them yellow nobody would have known...I think the blues work well with the AP rotors as they match and tend to find themselves both in the same "zone".

Those Rs29s found themselves in Oz on Matt Closes competition TTRS (second overall ALL the time to a Gallardo) but I'm not sure he likes them and keeps having me send him more Ds3000 all the time

Wouldn't like to try JCs  TT on big boost with blues in though on a serious track session...

That said he told me he wouldn't track his TT as he could keep up with pretty much everybody in APRs Golf R with 200 BHP less! Got to laugh! 

Ive come to the conclusion that Jonnys not the best person to test stuff as he's really quite disciplined and hits them hard and short, something not reflected in normal track day driving.

If you look at the VAGs on the how fast days.

RobJs Car with JC driving DS3000 TTRS
Mark Smith OEM ceramics TTRS
Dave TTRS RS29s TTRS

I like the Ds3000s but they make a mess of Calipers and wheels.

[Poverty]

So what pads are you going to sell me Dave. I'm in the all rounder camp sadly, due to impromptu high speed runs from cold. It will be a conversation we will be having as soon as I'm back on the road 

[Janner_Sy]

Theres alot of pads getting mentioned now.  So in my situation

Tarox 323mm x 28 (1 piece) 6 pot BBK in a 1200kg car (minus driver) with Motul RBF600

Tarox Corsa (which is a Ferodo DS2500) pads started to struggle in the dry at Silverstone(3.6 miles) after 5-8 laps, but in general held up OK.  Ambient temp was about 25^oC
Mintex M1144 pads started to struggle at Mallory park (1.35 miles) after 5-8 laps with a notable drop off in braking power. Ambient temp was about 8^oC

Im after a pad that could be used on both road/track that performs better than the two above mentioned pads.  so Pagid blues, oranges, RS29s, Ferrodos, M1155s etc?

[DaveB@Vagbremtechnic]

@Pov

We're getting to the point whereby its sort of out of my hands really, I keep using JK as a yardstick. He's stage 2 TTRS non track user uses it as a daily but might get up at 6am and go for a blat. Drives it hard on the road.

He's on RS4-2 as is JC, Rob Js on Blue now...seems everybody who tried Yellows (in many cases because it was "the best") had poor results, that's no reflection on the pad but more the case that the disc assemblies run really cool.

So 362s / Blues / No disc shield seems to work, I'm foolishly working with some guys who do the carbon inner panels and ducting for a load of world rally cars, looking at a cool air scoop and disc shield combo 3D thing. CFD reckons there's a 400% increase in airflow to the back of the disc.....so that's going to bugger things up again, JK/996cab have been bugging me for it and I'm only prepping for when affordable carbon discs arrive in the middle of 2013.

That said if you're happy with 55 then save some cash.

@Si

Just chuck some 55s in matey, also check the Calipers for serviceability ....billet machined Calipers are buggers for sticky pistons when hot and it won't be evident when cold.

Get Alex to send them to me or bring them to Preston and we'll do a pop and lube on them whilst you wait won't cost you anything, just hope you don't need a seal kit as they start at £300 per corner