EU Anti-Tampering Regulation

[gobbleplease]

Dont know if you are aware but as off The end of the year new mot regs come in meaning any car with a chipped ecu or hids will fail an mot! As of any of this happening in britain i cant see it ever happening as this will cost the economy millions due to tuners going out of business, this would also effect every non dealership garage if they wernt allowed to certain things to our cars ! That would easy cost 10000+ jobs

i think some things make sence in the motorbike world like lights ect but they wont stop the tuningparts ect ect

[RedRobin]

Dont know if you are aware but as off The end of the year new mot regs come in meaning any car with a chipped ecu or hids will fail an mot!
 

....Hmm,

A) - "Chipped" usually means hardware: A physical modification of the ECU or replacement/add-on etc. For example, it probably includes fleeBay 'stuff' which replaces the MAF etc.

B) - "Remap" means ECU software reprogramming and is quite a different story.

So, which do you mean?

You'd be a fool to chip the 2.0T FSI.

[Hedge]

I don't see how a non-franchised garage can police the "chipping" of an ECU not without great expense on their part. 

[PDT]

VAG have already implemented Tuning Protection 10 which effectively locks your ECU with 1024 bit RSA encryption.  That in itself is killing off the remapping market.  The only way around it at the moment is to remove and open the ECU for programming which in itself is a rather unsavoury business.

It kind of pi$$es me off.  Sure I can understand that they don't want unnecessary warranty claims etc but last time I looked I'd bought my ECU, i'm certainly not renting it so why should I be dictated to who can reprogram it?? 

What Bosch are doing with the new RSA encryption is actually a very good thing and not new at all, most ECU systems including the EDC16/ME9 that was introduced in 2004 had something similar and early on us tuners had to remove the ECU to modify the software.

The reason I say its a good thing is that the amateur 'back of a van' or 'buy files for €20 on ebay' tuning brigade will be restricted from tuning new cars. We have now tuned 150+ tricore encrypted ECU's and as long as you have the knowledge and the tools then its just the same as tuning any other ECU system. Heres a video I made and a guide to explain the process:

   http://www.dyno-tuning.co.uk/antiTuningRemaps/

No different really to how we were tuning the PD140 engine back in 2004/5

[gobbleplease]

Yea its chipping so ecu hardware, if i remember correctly i think is concentrating on wiring hardware mods that could cause fire ( eg thats why the hids are there too ) not really any trouble for us as we all use software, but it shows that the government are starting to outlaw some aftermarket performance products

[tony_danza]

As much as I like the freedom to tune, it's also a nightmare over here and it needs some control. As it stands, you can do pretty much anything to your car and as long as it'll pass an MOT, then it's golden. No checks are made on the quality of the parts or work. We're not talking about "us" as such, but look at some of the crap on the roads that's modded and you'll see why.

When I go to shows and whatnot, I'm never ceased to be amazed at the dangerous and disgusting work I see on cars in the name of 'modding'... cages held in by self-tappers, you name it.

There are many, many dangerous cars on the road that because of the outdated MOT system can drive on the road. I don't want them near me, or anyone else I know.

In Germany you can mod your car, but with caveats. You can do 90% of the mods we do (cages are iffy, unless you can prove it's for competition) and when you take your car for its annual check, you have a log book containing the list of everything extra/different about the car. Everything in that log book is checked in addition to the normal routine and is signed off as safe. The parts HAVE to be TUV approved - so no dangerous/untested Chinese et al tat off ebay.

Checking ECU's for maps?? I can't say it'll be widely checked, more kept in the bank when finding evidence for cases against dangerous driving etc. But the rest of the MOT and modding scene I'm 100% behind them in updating the regulations around it.

[QD MBE]

Perhaps a route to assist towards improved regulation, would be a check that all mods fitted at MOT were covered by suitable Insurance, the onus being placed on the car owner to prove his insurance specifically listed and fully covered all mods fitted.

This is of course not replacing in any way the much required road-worthy aspect of the Mods fitted.


ps I know some of the mods would not be visible, but at least regulating the more obvious abortions.  

[vRS Carl]

With regards to tuning protection it doesn't matter what they do someone will always beat it. Look at the Nissan GT-R that was supposedly un-tuneable and if you tried it shut itself down and made you commit Hari Kari. 18 months later Cobb Tuning had solved the problem. Even though each car manufacturer will undoubtedly employ the best people they can to encrypt the cars ECU etc. There is always some geek somewhere in the world who armed with not much more than a speak n spell will find a way to beat the tuning.

But i too am getting starting to get fed up with the amount of restrictions that the EU are starting to impose. As Stu says i own my car thus own everything from the Lacquer inwards. Next i'll be getting told i can't paint the walls in my house!

[vRStu]

VAG have already implemented Tuning Protection 10 which effectively locks your ECU with 1024 bit RSA encryption.  That in itself is killing off the remapping market.  The only way around it at the moment is to remove and open the ECU for programming which in itself is a rather unsavoury business.

It kind of pi$$es me off.  Sure I can understand that they don't want unnecessary warranty claims etc but last time I looked I'd bought my ECU, i'm certainly not renting it so why should I be dictated to who can reprogram it?? 

What Bosch are doing with the new RSA encryption is actually a very good thing and not new at all, most ECU systems including the EDC16/ME9 that was introduced in 2004 had something similar and early on us tuners had to remove the ECU to modify the software.

The reason I say its a good thing is that the amateur 'back of a van' or 'buy files for €20 on ebay' tuning brigade will be restricted from tuning new cars. We have now tuned 150+ tricore encrypted ECU's and as long as you have the knowledge and the tools then its just the same as tuning any other ECU system. Heres a video I made and a guide to explain the process:

   http://www.dyno-tuning.co.uk/antiTuningRemaps/

No different really to how we were tuning the PD140 engine back in 2004/5

I've seen that video before and I don't think anyone was trying to say tuning  TP10 ECU's wasn't possible however it is much more intrusive and has limitations.

Can you unlock an ECU and then tune via OBD for instance with an AlienTech handheld??

Your video doesn't show the opening procedure or the drilling out of sheer bolts, so really only offers the 'glossy' aspect of it.

[RedRobin]

^
Down n dirty with lots of drilling, eh?

[PDT]

No drilling required with the right tools, snap-on sell a socket that removes the shear bolts. I use the same tool that Audi use to heat the shear bolts to melt the glue and they come out easily.

Opening the ECU, again is simple with the right tools and leaves no marks or damage. Benefit to this is that this type of work troubles the amateur tuners as they simply dont have a clue so phases them out of the industry but to those of us that have been opening and soldering ECU's for years its something we do every day.


And no, you cant go on to use any form of OBD tool to alter the maps once the ECU has been programmed via bootmode.

It wont be long now before a solution to tricore encryption has been developed, but opening ECU's isnt a big deal, did 2 volvos today that required bench flashing via BDM (background debug mode) I actually prefer this method as its far more stable than OBD.   

[vRStu]

How about doing a video to show removing the ECU and opening it, it may help ease peoples concerns.  Certainly something I'm not too keen on so would be interested to see the process. 

[PDT]

Will do one next time one comes in 

[vRStu]

Sounds good, look forward to it.