Need advice om an Insurance issue.

[Bane]

I'm in need of a little help here if anyone has any legal knowledge.....I'll start with the background.
In January 2010,whilst parked quite legally,on the road right outside my garden gate,my car was smacked by another driver,causing a fair bit of front end damage and writing off his car in the process.The driver admitted there and then to myself and later to the police that he was totally at fault and he even admitted it to my insurers over the phone(as I was straight onto them in the minutes after the accident).
My car was towed off to a local bodyshop where they got the go ahead to repair my Golf.
The repair process took five months as this was last winter and they were stretched to beyond breaking with all the cars being taken to them for minor repairs after sliding on black ice or a minor collision with a snow bank,that sort of thing...Also,all parts had to be ordered from tha main dealer which is almost two hundred miles away and they had to get some of the parts specially ordered from VW in Germany.
So,long story short,I had a courtesy car(or rather various courtesy cars) over this five month period,from a local hire car company.I was told by them that it was a three week rolling contract done thru a leasing company used by the insurance company.
As the other driver had admitted liability to my insurers,they were satisfied that all costs would be born by his insurance company,including,to the best of my knowledge, the cost of a courtesy car.
I thought it was all done and dusted until I recieved a letter this week from the claims solutions company asking if at the time,"I had the means to pay for my own hire car" and they want copies of banks statements,credit card bills,outgoing payments,bills,etc,basically anything that will show my financial status at the time...and if I dont have these details,they want my permission to get statements from my bank themselves!
The way I read the letter,it seems to me like the other insurers are questioning the courtesy car costs and are refusing to pay,and that I may have to pay out instead....and I've worked out that it may be in the region of around 3-6k,basing on a daily cost of between £25-35.
What I need to know is;
What will happen if I refuse to give them what they want?
Can they get a court order to see my Finances from that time?
And lastly,not being the one at fault in the original claim,why the hell am I getting the threatening letters nearly two years later?      

[gazbutS3]

I would just send this letter to your insurance company and let them deal with it

[berg]

Ok, as the Claimant you have a common law duty to mitigate your losses.

This means that although the other party is negligent you have to keep the costs of your claim to a minimum.

So if you have a comprehensive policy you dont have to utilise it immediately but if liability remained an issue you could not continue in a credit hire vehicle indefinately without using the policy. You cannot go to to Court and expect the DJ to be sympathetic to a large credit hire bill if you had a comprehensive policy to utilise.

In respect of the documentation they seek to confirm whether you will plead that you were impecunious - ie could you have forwarded to go out and pay for the hire car up front? If the answer is yes, and you have £10k in your current account then you could have afforded to pay "spot rates" instead of "credit rates". If this can be proved the hire charges are still recoveravle from the Defendant - but the rate will be reduced in line with "spot hire" rates in your area. 

Unfortunately, people are often given these hire cars thinking they are a "free"car. There is no such thing - you have entered into a contract with the hire company and you are legally responsible for the hire charges. However, do not fret too much as it it highly unlikely that said hire company would come after you for any shortfall eg hire bill = £10k, they recover £6k as you could have afforded spot hire rates. They will take that in full and final settlement.

Was the hire contract terms and conditions fully explained to you? Where did you sign the contract, was it in your home or outside your home or did you pick the car up from the garage? Do you have a copy of the hire contract - if so does it contain a 7 day "cooling off period" clause which enables you to cancel the contract? 

In respect of bank statements, credit cards etc then yes the Courts have ruled that you do need to disclose these. If you have to send them simply blank out your sort code and account number so they cannot be seen in case Royal Mail lose the letter.

PM me if you need.

[stealthwolf]

So if my insurer says they'll provide a "free" courtesy car, then it's not free, it's just a hire car? Is that correct?

[dave963]

What insurance company are you with?

[LouCyffer]

Bane,

read these:

http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/askhj/answer/16198/accident-mismangement

http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?t=71320

http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/askhj/answer/16447/action-to-reduce-credit-hire-costs-after-an-accident-

http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/askhj/keywords/?word=credit+hire

This is an accident management or credit hire con which is a growing issue in UK insurance.  All you have to do is prove that you could have hired an acceptable replacement for considerably less for that lesser amount to be all you can be held liable for. The case law is: Copley and Lawn v Maden and Haller, Appeal Court 17-6-2009. And Clark v Ardington, Appeal Court 19-4-2002.

[RedRobin]

^^^^
Nice to see that we've got some Legal Eagles amongst us here  :   

[andrewparker]

^^ Indeed, because that sounds like a bloody nightmare.

Good luck sorting it out.

[berg]

So if my insurer says they'll provide a "free" courtesy car, then it's not free, it's just a hire car? Is that correct?

That depends on whether it is a "courtesy car" supplied by the repairing garage when your car goes in for repair, and it mentions in your policy that you are entitled to one in such circumstances, or whether it is a "credit hire" vehicle supplied by an CHO or AMC and you sign a contract for that vehicle on a credit basis on the proviso that it will be recoverable from the Defendant. If the latter, then yes you are legally responsible for those charges, but a portion/majority should be recoverable from the Defendant and they are unlikely to pursue you for the rest unless there is an underlying issue (fraud etc)

[stealthwolf]

I did a little reading, but from what I gather, if you have the option of using CHO/AMC, then you shouldn't but instead hire your own car and then charge that to the third party's insurance. Is that also correct? It seems a bit of a minefield. Was reading through Honest John and a few other websites and what I gathered:

- you can use a CHO/AMC
- you can in theory get "like for like" provided you can prove your need (eg access to one car only, need it for extenuating circumstances_
- you don't have the ability to hire your own car (eg no savings)
- if your Golf GTI is involved in an accident and you get given say an BMW M5, at the very least you have to pay the difference between the Golf GTI and the M5 in terms of hire
- it's all done on a hire purchase agreement, and can easily run to more than the cost of the new replacement car
- if you're still using the car after three months, they should give you a new contract; otherwise all is null and void and you don't have to pay anything.

Completely confusing and it seems you're better off buying a banger as a second car.

[MPS]

Completely confusing and it seems you're better off buying a banger as a second car.

+1. This sounds like a MASSIVE headache!

[RedRobin]

+1. This sounds like a MASSIVE headache!

....Doesn't it just!!

[Bane]

Thanks very much for the help guys...it's highly appreciated.
I was with Elephant insurance at the time,but I've changed my insurers twice now,so I don't have any of the Elephant paperwork anymore.I certainly don't remember any timespan on the courtesy car(which was definately the term used) i,e, 28days or whatever.
As it was a not-at-fault claim and the other party admitted full liability,I thought all costs would be borne through his insurer and it would be up to Elephant to chase them for all the costs of the courtesy car?

I picked up the car from a local hire company as there aren't any of the big nationals where I live in Scotland.I know the owner and the guys who work there,so there was no contract agreement signed,either on their behalf or on behalf of the company(who I can't remember now) that they had the contract from to supply me with a courtesy car from the insurers!Neither was it like-for-like,which Elephant was supposed to get,but I got a Vectra 1.8 SRI to start with then it went to an Astra,then down to a Meriva.
I did ask if anyone had been in touch with them wondering why they were still supplying a car after four months,but they said it was a rolling contract-they would supply a car for however long was required.I guess they were going to be paid anyway so it was no great hassle for them.
I have a feeling that this is going to be a ballache...... 

[stealthwolf]

If you didn't sign a contract, did anyone else sign one on your behalf (incl anyone at the car hire or their/your insurance)? I'd have a chat with the hire company if you know them well enough.

If no contract, surely that means you aren't liable?

[berg]

If you didn't sign a contract, did anyone else sign one on your behalf (incl anyone at the car hire or their/your insurance)? I'd have a chat with the hire company if you know them well enough.

If no contract, surely that means you aren't liable?

yup if you have not signed a contract or the terms and conditions were not explained to you the contract is void.