HPFP Leaking (Uprated Internals)

[DonalM]

Hi Guys,

I refitted my HPFP with KMD uprated internals the other day.

The following morning it started to misfire and Engine Management Light came on.

Got at it today and petrol is leaking into the oil in the engine.

All the seals seem to be okay, the only place I can see that it could be coming out is up through the piston??.

Anyone ever experienced this before??.

Thanks in advance.

[JackG]

Hi Guys,

I refitted my HPFP with KMD uprated internals the other day.

The following morning it started to misfire and Engine Management Light came on.

Got at it today and petrol is leaking into the oil in the engine.

All the seals seem to be okay, the only place I can see that it could be coming out is up through the piston??.

Anyone ever experienced this before??.

Checked the bucket that the spring hits?

Thanks in advance.

[DonalM]

Thanks Jack. It seems to be okay.

Just had another look and there's a gap in the two semi-circular collars that come with the internals at the top of the piston.

Is this supposed to be there??.

[martziniuk]

If the internals are like the Autotech ones then yes there will be a little gap when you put them together. Did you rebuild the pump in the first place? Earlier KMD internals have been known to leak fuel past the seal.

[DonalM]

If the internals are like the Autotech ones then yes there will be a little gap when you put them together. Did you rebuild the pump in the first place? Earlier KMD internals have been known to leak fuel past the seal.

Thanks for the reply.

No the internals were just put straight in.

Would a full rebuild sort it??.

[martziniuk]

I very much doubt cleaning the pump would fix it and there are no replacement parts for the pump. I would get rid of the internals and buy a brand new pump and fit some Autotech internals, but the best option IMO would be buy the APR pump.

[DonalM]

Flip it. 

Thanks again.

Probably go with the Autotech one. Can't justify that money for the APR.

[vRS_Pagey]

Bad news there mate, but just to echo Martin, I would splash out on an APR pump, made from scratch so they can't leak.  On the plus side, it's lucky you spotted it when you did as it could have caused significant damage. 

[muckipup]

I have also been at the receiving end of a failed pump following after-market internals. I also agree with Martin that new internals are probably not the answer. It is most likely to be a failure of a seal in the OEM pump housing caused by the uprated internals. Just out of interest, are you running a remap which would demand the full 130 bar of fuel rail pressure (eg Revo)?  The reason I ask was that my map did not and my Autotech pump held in there but when I changed to Revo and got the full 130 bar of fuel rail pressure (which is what I needed and exactly what a Stage 2+/3 map should be delivering), the seal went pop. One APR pump and a hole in the wallet later and all is well now.

Here is some more info:

http://www.jkm.org.uk/performance/tfsipumps.htm

and specifically

http://www.jkm.org.uk/performance/Misc/Misc_Performance_pictures/APR%20Pump/tech/pumpimages/Visio3_big.jpg

Come to think of it....Martin, you bought my Autotech internals....dare I ask why you mention the APR HPFP in your sig?

[DonalM]

Thanks again guys.

What I don't get is how some people have no problems running them with big power (330+ hp.)

Think my car is cursed  . 

[martziniuk]

I have also been at the receiving end of a failed pump following after-market internals. I also agree with Martin that new internals are probably not the answer. It is most likely to be a failure of a seal in the OEM pump housing caused by the uprated internals. Just out of interest, are you running a remap which would demand the full 130 bar of fuel rail pressure (eg Revo)?  The reason I ask was that my map did not and my Autotech pump held in there but when I changed to Revo and got the full 130 bar of fuel rail pressure (which is what I needed and exactly what a Stage 2+/3 map should be delivering), the seal went pop. One APR pump and a hole in the wallet later and all is well now.

Here is some more info:

http://www.jkm.org.uk/performance/tfsipumps.htm

and specifically

http://www.jkm.org.uk/performance/Misc/Misc_Performance_pictures/APR%20Pump/tech/pumpimages/Visio3_big.jpg

Come to think of it....Martin, you bought my Autotech internals....dare I ask why you mention the APR HPFP in your sig?

Dave, I fitted them into my 100k pump and ran 130bar no problems but I was concerned about my high mileage pump so fitted them to a brand new pump, then a secondhand APR pump popped up on here for a steal so I bought that as I prefer the shape of the piston over the stepped Autotech design. I sold my other pump on, I believe it's still fine with its new owner.

Provided the pump piston has been manufactured within its tight tolerances and fitted in a new pump with a seal that has not been worn to the size of the O.E piston it should be fine.

[muckipup]

Great to hear that Martin  I think you are right, the failure rate of the Autotech seems to be low and probably related to a 'lottery' with the seal in the OEM pump particularly when it has already been used with the standard internals. As with all lotteries, I usually luck-out!

[DonalM]

Cheers guys. 

Has anyone a part number for a new pump and a rough guess at what they cost??.

I have another pump here with 40,000 miles on it, I might'nt chance it.

[vRS Carl]

I have also been at the receiving end of a failed pump following after-market internals. I also agree with Martin that new internals are probably not the answer. It is most likely to be a failure of a seal in the OEM pump housing caused by the uprated internals. Just out of interest, are you running a remap which would demand the full 130 bar of fuel rail pressure (eg Revo)?  The reason I ask was that my map did not and my Autotech pump held in there but when I changed to Revo and got the full 130 bar of fuel rail pressure (which is what I needed and exactly what a Stage 2+/3 map should be delivering), the seal went pop. One APR pump and a hole in the wallet later and all is well now.

Here is some more info:

http://www.jkm.org.uk/performance/tfsipumps.htm

and specifically

http://www.jkm.org.uk/performance/Misc/Misc_Performance_pictures/APR%20Pump/tech/pumpimages/Visio3_big.jpg

Come to think of it....Martin, you bought my Autotech internals....dare I ask why you mention the APR HPFP in your sig?

Dave, I fitted them into my 100k pump and ran 130bar no problems but I was concerned about my high mileage pump so fitted them to a brand new pump, then a secondhand APR pump popped up on here for a steal so I bought that as I prefer the shape of the piston over the stepped Autotech design. I sold my other pump on, I believe it's still fine with its new owner.

Provided the pump piston has been manufactured within its tight tolerances and fitted in a new pump with a seal that has not been worn to the size of the O.E piston it should be fine.

Not necessarily so. I fitted my Autotech internals and the pump ran fine for 50k miles. It started to fail (luckily it was caught as it started) and it was still running 129.99 bar when logged.

The problem isn't anything to do with the OE pump. It is the stepped design of the piston. Fuel gets behind the step and as the piston compresses it attempts to compress the fuel. Liquids can't be compressed so they find the easiest route which just happens to be past the energised seal. Once that happens then i think you need a new pump as i'm not sure (someone may be able to confirm) if the seal is replaceable.

When mine went i changed to APR and i would say to the OP to either search eGAy for a used APR one or buy new for peace of mind

A new pump is

06F 127 025 K - £177.77 Inc VAT from a Stealer.

[martziniuk]

The inner seal is not a replacement part but if it were you'd certainly never DIY it. I took Daves pump seal out, when I'd finished trying to get it out it was completely mashed!

Is this a Briskoda meet?