Volkswagen Driver mag - Manual v DSG figures

[GrayMK5GTI]

DSG cars arent as good on fuel as a manual (driven economically).

No doubt that the DSG is rapid at changing gear, no manual could match it even with a short shift kit

[vRS Carl]

vRS Carl & SaintSteve, just because the shifts are amazingly quick, does that necessarily make the car faster? DJM makes a good point about the DSG box in standard form. Maybe it changes up too early? If a manual is very well driven, with optimum changes, maybe this could make up for the slower shifts?

Yes it may well change up to early but if you have the car in Manual Mode and hold the paddle when you shift it stops it upshifting (same thing that is done when Dyno testing a DSG car). So that kind of negates your point. I don't know about all the cars on the 1/4 mile leader board and maybe they all do have mapped boxes. But as i said earlier all that does is allow the car to rev higher (which you can do yourself by holding the paddle) and increase the torque limiter.

I could throw the same argument back. A very well launched DSG car, with shifting at the optimum point will negate any optimum changes in the manual car.

[Greeners]

These figures have been repeated for every type of GTI VW Driver have driven since DSG was launched.

They have discussed this further in later editions and put it down to the fact they have tested manuals this way for years and they have their technique sorted. No other explanation other than that. A good journo with years of road testing experience will be able to launch a manual far quicker than most.

As mentioned above, check the 0-60/0-100 leader boards and it is dominated with DSG. Anyone can launch a DSG quickly, not so with a manual.

[Saintsteve]

There also was a golf R comparison by AutoCar with Steve Sutcliffe at the wheel. The Dsg car was far faster and no matter what he tried, couldnt get the manual near..

http://m.youtube.com/index?desktop_uri=%2F&gl=GB#/watch?v=lRwfvnDt7BA
 
Or this as someone quoted

 

[Mk5 GTian]

Fair play, 0.4 secs quicker in the DSG, and then it stomps over the Megane 225. Can't argue with that!

That guys' changes in the manual are amazing though! It also highlights the higher skill level required to launch well in a manual.

So the amazing time of 0-60 in 6 secs by VWD in the manual is purely down to a well honed launch technique?

[sub39h]

The 1/4 mile leaderboardbsays otherwise.  The quickest cars are all dsg

This

There's also that video of a Japanese race car driver in a GTI (manual and DSG) and he was getting better 0 - 60 times in the DSG. And there's a video on YouTube of the Golf R manual vs DSG and in 3 runs the manual isn't faster than the DSG a single time. Nor was it consistent, where the DSG was

But in any event, in real world conditions i.e. you or me (so not race car drivers on a closed circuit for a magazine) I'd bet my mortgage that a DSG car would trounce an equivalent manual car in a race between the lights every single time

I'm not all that bothered about the fuel economy, as the convenience and duality of the gearbox is worth 2mpg all day long.

[jhtrophy]

Just look how quick dodgems got off the line

[sub39h]

Just look how quick dodgems got off the line

and they're fun and involving, and don't have a stick shift 

[winrya]

I'd imagine the manual is quicker to 60 as you can run a manual into the red line to get a full 60 mph in second gear (remember indicated is more like 64-64mph at 60) and a dsg box will change up once in the red zone.  You cannot change gear as quickly as the dsg does it manually, no chance.

As far as conservative figures go, VW quote performance figures with 2 passengers, a full tank of fuel and fully loaded boot.  An extra 1.2 secs to 60 with all that lot on board sounds realistic to me.

[Janner_Sy]

This video proves that wrong big style. 

3 runs in a Golf R in the manual followed by 3 runs in the DSG.  Same day, same road, same driver, same conditions.

Manual 0-60
Claimed 5.7 Secs

Actual

Run 1: 6.4 secs
Run 2: 6.7 Secs
Run 3: 6.3 Secs

DSG 0-60
Claimed 5.5 Secs

Actual

Run 1: 5.7 secs
Run 2: 5.7 secs
Run 3: 5.7 secs

Also if VW quote figures with 2 passengers and fully loaded boot, then they are way off the actual performance as that was just steve sutcliffe in that car on his own

[winrya]

Also if VW quote figures with 2 passengers and fully loaded boot, then they are way off the actual performance as that was just steve sutcliffe in that car on his own

That's what it says in the original 2004 gti vw brochure

[jhtrophy]

Why would they set the figures with all that extra weight? I doubt that, any way figures are irelavant, evo did 6.5 to 60 in mine, no idea how unless my handbrake is stuck on

[vRS Carl]

Also if VW quote figures with 2 passengers and fully loaded boot, then they are way off the actual performance as that was just steve sutcliffe in that car on his own

That's what it says in the original 2004 gti vw brochure

You sure that's not just for Consumption figures? I've never known any manufacturer quote a 0-60 time with extra weight? They would want it to be as quick as possible for something like a GTi

[sub39h]

Also if VW quote figures with 2 passengers and fully loaded boot, then they are way off the actual performance as that was just steve sutcliffe in that car on his own

That's what it says in the original 2004 gti vw brochure

You sure that's not just for Consumption figures? I've never known any manufacturer quote a 0-60 time with extra weight? They would want it to be as quick as possible for something like a GTi

i'm pretty sure the A3's figures are meant to represent real world driving (b*llocks) by having two passengers, reasonable luggage and half a tank of fuel or something similar

i can't imagine VW would do any different

[winrya]

Also if VW quote figures with 2 passengers and fully loaded boot, then they are way off the actual performance as that was just steve sutcliffe in that car on his own

That's what it says in the original 2004 gti vw brochure

You sure that's not just for Consumption figures? I've never known any manufacturer quote a 0-60 time with extra weight? They would want it to be as quick as possible for something like a GTi

Yep, 100% sure it is reference the performance stats