Volkswagen Driver mag - Manual v DSG figures

[Mk5 GTian]

I've just bought a 2009 copy of VW driver on ebay, the special GTi issue which celebrated 6 generations, and found some really interesting reading about performance of the KO3 Mk5 GTi.

"According to VW, DSG gave better performance and fuel consumption than the manual (0.3 secs quicker 0-62 and 0.4mpg more), but our road test figures showed the opposite: The manual car was 0.3 secs quicker and nearly 2 mpg more economical".

                      O-60        0-70       50-70 in 3rd (kickdown for DSG)       Overall MPG          Economical driving MPG

DSG                6.3           8.2                        3.4                                           26.7                            37.9

Manual            6.0           8.3                        3.3                                           28.6                            39.6   

This brings up 2 points for me:

Why are VW's performance figures so conservative?

Did VW massage the figures to make the DSG look quicker than the manual in order to sell DSG boxes, which have clearly resulted from massive investment? I mean, who would spend nearly 2 grand more on a slower car?

[Vdub13799]

I have manual!!!!   

[Mk5 GTian]

I have manual!!!!   

Me too, and I've had cars with 0-60 in around 7 before, and my boggo standard deffo feels quicker! It's gonna feel a lot quicker after stage 1 and a K&N air filter!! 

[DJM]

All figures from all manufacturers can be manipulated and usually are. Take with a pinch of salt i would as so many factors that can alter the stats. I know with some fords they used to manipulate that stats which i can only presume for insurance purposes.

[stu_no_1]

I seriously doubt dsg is slower 0-60 with the shift time being that quick

[Janner_Sy]

The 1/4 mile leaderboardbsays otherwise.  The quickest cars are all dsg

[Mk5 GTian]

I seriously doubt dsg is slower 0-60 with the shift time being that quick

I guess it depends on who is driving the car. Also, the shift may be quicker, but are there not drawbacks in power delivery compared to a manual? A really skillful driver in a manual can shift quicker, and may cancel out the advantage of the dsg? Just a suggestion, I don't know! Just think it's really interesting.

[Mk5 GTian]

The 1/4 mile leaderboardbsays otherwise.  The quickest cars are all dsg

Fair enough! Nothing like a bit of empirical evidence! Where is this leaderboard info? is it on the forum? And I wonder why they had these results?

[DJM]

The 1/4 mile leaderboardbsays otherwise.  The quickest cars are all dsg

Could they be remapped DSG systems though?

Im like MK5 GTIAN, not really sure just making points to why they may have got those figures lol. Maybe DSG changes too soon? I dont know.

[vRS Carl]

I doubt even a racing car driver could match the gear change of DSG. Otherwise F1 cars would be Manual and not Semi-Auto sequential boxes. DSG shifts in 8milliseconds and as far as i know is the fastest shifting box out there.

Mapping a DSG box just allows it to rev higher (which you can do yourself by holding the paddle) and increases the torque limit. I know that REVO also alter the launch control point.

[JackG]

I'd say that the times are complete bull 
It's pretty much impossible for a manual to be faster than a DSG  the DSG gear change is unreal

[Saintsteve]

I think the columns have been mixed up in printing.. 

I'd like to see someone try and shift gear quicker then 8 milliseconds

[MAT ED30]

But atleast the manual gearbox driver was more involved in the driving experience 

[Mk5 GTian]

DJM, good point, how would the leaderboard look if all were boggo standard, and DSG's were not remapped? Purely down to driver skill differences.

vRS Carl & SaintSteve, just because the shifts are amazingly quick, does that necessarily make the car faster? DJM makes a good point about the DSG box in standard form. Maybe it changes up too early? If a manual is very well driven, with optimum changes, maybe this could make up for the slower shifts?

Mat ED30, I agree with your point about driver involvement, and I'd always have a manual. I'd love to get hold of 2 boggo standard
K03's (1 manual and 1 DSG) and the same with 2 ED30's, and get someone like Tiff Niddell to record their fastest times in each. I reckon it'd be really interesting. I mean, I doubt the guys at Volkswagen Driver made it up!

[Russ_leeds]

theres a video im sure it was on here where a japanese drifting champion, who can shift gear unbelievably quick races a dsg in a manual both standard and he gets dusted, they then swap cars and he absolutely loves the dsg, and states he thinks it has set a new standard for auto boxes. I drive a manual by the was so im not biased in the slightest towards dsg