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Author Topic: APR stage 2+ v3.0  (Read 132277 times)

Offline Tamiyoman

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Re: APR stage 2+ v3.0
« Reply #285 on: February 09, 2012, 10:52:51 am »
So its still £499 plus VAT or £599 inc VAT, still seems pricey to me especcially as APR are making a come back, you would think they would price more in line with others (or lower) to entice customers back?, or am I completely wrong  :confused:
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Offline Tamiyoman

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Re: APR stage 2+ v3.0
« Reply #286 on: February 09, 2012, 11:27:22 am »
But thats still £180 more than Jabbasport, £200 more than R-Tech and £200 more than shark performance?, what does the extra £180-200 provide over competitors as I already know Revo are overpriced  :P

Looking at sales bumf it looks like they all have similar claims.

Sorry to bang on but im trying to justify to myself (and others possibly) the extra £180-200 over similar software, or are we really just paying for an american "Guy" to eat more burgers and buy a bigger RV?

As it stands software and claims look good but price, no no no

« Last Edit: February 09, 2012, 11:33:34 am by Tamiyoman »
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Offline Tamiyoman

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Re: APR stage 2+ v3.0
« Reply #287 on: February 09, 2012, 04:16:18 pm »
So what your saying is if i was to buy stage 1 (£499+VAT) and then 3-6 months later come back having added TBE exhaust, Twintake and HPFP you would upgrade to stage 2 FOC?, does this include rolling road or just plug and off u go as I understand that most cars are different and extra tweaks here and there are carried out or is stage 2 a boggo std map to cover ll options?

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Offline DanGB

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Re: APR stage 2+ v3.0
« Reply #288 on: February 09, 2012, 05:14:05 pm »


Remember there is also a FREE 6 hours trial on APR remaps, plug in and go for 6 hours of driving time, who else offers that?

Revo offer a 5 hour trial, but its apparently 80% of the full remap power!
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Offline Tamiyoman

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Re: APR stage 2+ v3.0
« Reply #289 on: February 09, 2012, 05:36:55 pm »
Remember there is also a FREE 6 hours trial on APR remaps, plug in and go for 6 hours of driving time, who else offers that?

I am not going to take a free trial for 6 hours as afterwards my car will feel deadly slow  :sad1:, until I stop plowing money into other things and start funding mods I shall stay std, then perhaps when I have the funds I may take up the offer of free trial, if I like it well who knows........
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Offline Teutonic_Tamer

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Re: APR stage 2+ v3.0
« Reply #290 on: February 10, 2012, 11:02:07 am »
But thats still £180 more than Jabbasport, £200 more than R-Tech and £200 more than shark performance?, what does the extra £180-200 provide over competitors as I already know Revo are overpriced  :P

Looking at sales bumf it looks like they all have similar claims.

Sorry to bang on but im trying to justify to myself (and others possibly) the extra £180-200 over similar software, or are we really just paying for an american "Guy" to eat more burgers and buy a bigger RV?

As it stands software and claims look good but price, no no no

 :signLOL: :signLOL: :signLOL: :signLOL: :signIWS: :signIWS: :signIWS: :signIWS: :notworthy: :notworthy: :notworthy: :notworthy:

What a sooooper comment - love it!  :drinking:
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Offline Teutonic_Tamer

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Re: APR stage 2+ v3.0
« Reply #291 on: February 10, 2012, 11:16:24 am »
APR spend a lot of money on research, hence why they are usually the first to release code and full turbo kits for new models while the competitors are still trying to get around the encryption!
Ahhhh . . . the UK version of Superchips then - first to the market - but full of bugs in the code!

The best staff in the business cost money,
And what proof do you have that they are employed by APR????  Zilch!


what you are getting with APR is a code that you know has been fully researched, tested and is in safe tolerances of your engine, APR pride themselves on retaining hardware protection on their code so its good for the street and good for the track if you do so.
And so do all the other tuners - they all make the same claims.  Trouble is with the yankie APR code - they have completely different fuel to UK or EU spec fuels, and more importantly, ALL North American ECUs have lean-burn mode disabled.  So how the heck can they claim it is safe in - quote - "your engine"??????


Who else offers switchability through cruise control at no extra charge?  you can have several maps, security lockout, valet mode, anti theft and TBE all through your cruise, most mapping companies cant offer these extra functions let alone through the cruise stalk, so no switching unit to buy.
O-rlly - that's quite an arrogant statement!  What about Revo?  What about GIAC?

Remember, there is more than one way to skin a rabbit - what about cars which do NOT have C/C ????  Oh, sorry, this is a yankie product where they automatically assume that every car everywhere else in the world follows the yankie spec!  :stupid:


Also all stage 2 upgrades on maps are free of charge, no £50/100 to upgrade your map, free of charge :)
Personally, I'd rather pay an additional £50 for an upgrade from a UK based company, with UK based R&D, which was developed on UK specification cars, using UK specification fuels, on UK specification tarmac, operating in UK weather conditions - - - - rather than some burger munching bod who probably thinks he can 'do' a full tour of the UK in a three day  hire car rental.  :stupid:

But that is just my opinion, mind you!  :smiley:
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Offline Teutonic_Tamer

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Re: APR stage 2+ v3.0
« Reply #292 on: February 10, 2012, 11:20:44 am »
Remember there is also a FREE 6 hours trial on APR remaps, plug in and go for 6 hours of driving time, who else offers that?

Erm . . . . REVO.  Oh, sorry, how silly of me - - - REVO offer only FIVE hours free trial - so probably in your eyes, that doesn't count!  :stupid:

And I'd probably guess that virtually ALL other remapers would offer a similar trial period - but hey - APRs is 6hrs . . . :indifferent:
Sean - Independant Automotive Engineering Technician (ret'd)
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Offline Keith@APR

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Re: APR stage 2+ v3.0
« Reply #293 on: February 10, 2012, 12:42:00 pm »
I can fully understand APR coming back to the party as its a large market for them to share at (especcially as lots jumped to Revo and are now thinking of jumping back), and i do understand UK pricing structures compared to USA pricing, but lets be honest US trade price plus a $ per pound/kilo shipping does not add up to UK prices being what they are (A re-map weighs nothing  :happy2:), although again I suppose we should be used to it by now in the UK  :booty:

As I said, I've added in duty, shipping, UK ops cost and margin for the dealer network and that's where the pricing came to.  The remaps are the same price as other major brands in the UK.

disagree with the warranty side of things on imports and to call them "Grey Imports" does not sound right after all we live in a world economy and with the internet thats the way it works, if an APR product fails the last thing APR need is bad press about refusing to honour a warranty on a product (Wherever it was bought), i thought warranties were on the product itself, not its location?

Unfortunately, that's not how it works.  I wish it could.  Our importers are responsible for complete brand development in their markets.  They are responsible for customer service, marketing, warehousing, some product development, dealer training, dealer support, etc.  All of these business operations have expense.  If you buy an APR part from somewhere other than through the Authorized Importer, you can't expect them to assume the burden of providing support.

For example, if you buy an APR HPFP in the grey market but have an issue, you can't expect the local APR Importer to even answer your call much less bring your car to an APR dealer and expect any kind of support i.e. diagnosis, etc.

If you bought from an APR Dealer in your area, you can expect to talk them at length about what the issue is and expect them to provide a complete resolution at no cost to you.

Imagine this, you are a small business in a local town.  You sell and promote the APR brand.  You go to local shows, develop local marketing, provide great customer service, etc.  One day a client that has been to see you often and you've given great service to, even fixed small things on their engine FOC like a rotting vacuum line or whatnot, shows up with APR products for install that were purchased some place else.  You install the product but APR made a mistake and something doesn't fit as it should.  What should you do?  Spend your time and money working with APR to correct the issue or charge the client for the work you did and send him on his way without his APR product installed?

Look at it on APR's end.  If the APR dealer calls APR for support and APR says, on this particular car you need an extra part that the client didn't order, we thought you knew that.  The dealer then says, yeah, but he didn't buy it from me.  Then comes and tells you you didn't buy the extra part and you need to spend more money.  You are going to be upset and APR is more than likely just going to give you the extra part.  This costs APR money and the dealer his time and money who is more than likely going to install the extra part FOC.

We have experts in local markets because they are experts.  Expertise deserves compensation.



.S. im not a hater of APR or ANY otheer tuner in fact my brother had APR on his 1.8T and was happy with it, I just wish that some of the pricing structures would be a tad more "realistic", maybe its the usual case of "Paying for the name"?
£499 Stg 1 remap seems fair enough for a MK5 GTI but £699 for an ED30/S3?? :ashamed:

Both Stage 1 remaps for the GTI and ED30 or S3 are 499GBP.  There must be a pricing mistake where you looked.  Sorry for that!

Offline Keith@APR

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Re: APR stage 2+ v3.0
« Reply #294 on: February 10, 2012, 12:45:51 pm »
699 is daft money. Youd have thought with the likes of R-tech creating great software for ~£300 that the big guns would reduce their pricing.

Its only 499GBP.

Offline Keith@APR

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Re: APR stage 2+ v3.0
« Reply #295 on: February 10, 2012, 12:47:10 pm »
On the AR tuned website there is no mention of Remap for for ED30, its only if you click MK6 that you then see the K04 engined cars map and thats priced at £699, copied from the site

ROW Vehicle Application Guide



Model

Engine

Drivetrain

Transmission

Price




Audi S3

2.0T FSI 195kW

Quattro

6MT & S-Tronic

£699



Audi TT-S

2.0T FSI 200kW

Quattro

6MT & S-Tronic

£699



VW Golf Edition 30

2.0T FSI

 

6MT & DSG

£699



VW Scirocco R

2.0T FSI 200kW

FWD

6MT & DSG

£699



SEAT León Cupra R

2.0T FSI 195kW

FWD

6MT & DSG

£699


APR UK's official website is www.goapr.co.uk but its under construction still.

Offline Keith@APR

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Re: APR stage 2+ v3.0
« Reply #296 on: February 10, 2012, 12:55:57 pm »
But thats still £180 more than Jabbasport, £200 more than R-Tech and £200 more than shark performance?, what does the extra £180-200 provide over competitors as I already know Revo are overpriced  :P

Looking at sales bumf it looks like they all have similar claims.

Sorry to bang on but im trying to justify to myself (and others possibly) the extra £180-200 over similar software, or are we really just paying for an american "Guy" to eat more burgers and buy a bigger RV?

As it stands software and claims look good but price, no no no



I do like burgers.  mmmmmmmmm, burgers.

RV'ing, not so much.

In reality you are paying for a team of 15+ engineers, the best customer support, features, options and, in the case of the factory ko4 cars, performance that no one else offers.

Left foot braking is an example of features that I know of nobody currently offering.  This means you can be on the throttle and brake pedal at the same time without the ECU closing the throttle plate.  This is very important for circuit driving.

You also get free updates/upgrades until you change the turbocharger.  If you buy Stage 1 you never have to pay anything additional for Stage 1+, Stage 2, Stage 2+, etc.  This alone makes us nearly the least expensive option available.  If you go from Stage 1 to Stage 2+ and each step along the way, you'll save 100-200GBP by going APR.

Remember our remaps are offered as fully loaded.  That means you get 4 calibrations, a fault code erase feature, security lockout feature and anti-theft feature.  There is a marked difference in how our remaps perform as verified by every single client that has tried more than one remap in the UK thus far since I've been here.

Offline Keith@APR

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Re: APR stage 2+ v3.0
« Reply #297 on: February 10, 2012, 02:21:38 pm »
APR spend a lot of money on research, hence why they are usually the first to release code and full turbo kits for new models while the competitors are still trying to get around the encryption!
Ahhhh . . . the UK version of Superchips then - first to the market - but full of bugs in the code!

Obviously we are not perfect, but full of bugs?  No sir, not by a long shot.  We are generally first to market because we are the only major tuner that does all flashing technology development in house.  This allows us to control our own destiny without having to wait for a 3rd party vendor to make the ability to flash the ECU's available to us.

The best staff in the business cost money,
And what proof do you have that they are employed by APR????  Zilch!

What proof would you like to see?  I can produce paycheck stubs.  Which APR employees would you like to verify?  

As for myself, I am the Vice President of APR, LLC (USA) and the Director of APR Motorsport, LTD (UK).  I receive my paycheck from APR, LLC.  

Greg, customer service manager at APR Motorsport, LTD, and Andy, technician extraordinaire, are employed by APR Motorsport, LTD and receive their paychecks from there.

Jyrki, the APR calibration expert assigned to APR Motorsport, LTD, receives his paycheck from APR, LLC and is employed there.  

APR Motorsport, LTD is a wholly owned subsidiary of APR, LLC.  If you would like, I can post the Companies House documents listing APR, LLC as the sole shareholder in APR Motorsport, LTD.  I imagine this is public record but if not, I don't mind sharing.


what you are getting with APR is a code that you know has been fully researched, tested and is in safe tolerances of your engine, APR pride themselves on retaining hardware protection on their code so its good for the street and good for the track if you do so.
And so do all the other tuners - they all make the same claims.

Claims, yes but a short amount of time spent researching their facilities and available equipment contained therein will shed some light on the difference between those who speak truth and those who make "claims".

Trouble is with the yankie APR code - they have completely different fuel to UK or EU spec fuels,

Sorry, but this is completely incorrect.  The fuel quality is very comparable but the rating system is different.  This is easily verified with the petrol companies about.

Research Octane Number (RON)

The most common type of octane rating worldwide is the Research Octane Number (RON). RON is determined by running the fuel in a test engine with a variable compression ratio under controlled conditions, and comparing the results with those for mixtures of iso-octane and n-heptane.

[edit]Motor Octane Number (MON)

There is another type of octane rating, called Motor Octane Number (MON), or the aviation lean octane rating, which is a better measure of how the fuel behaves when under load, as it is determined at 900 rpm engine speed, instead of the 600 rpm for RON.[1] MON testing uses a similar test engine to that used in RON testing, but with a preheated fuel mixture, higher engine speed, and variable ignition timing to further stress the fuel's knock resistance. Depending on the composition of the fuel, the MON of a modern gasoline will be about 8 to 10 points lower than the RON, however there is no direct link between RON and MON. Normally, fuel specifications require both a minimum RON and a minimum MON.[citation needed]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octane_rating

Your 97 or 98 Ron is almost identical to the USA's 93 octane.  They are just rated differently.

But alas, that has no bearing on further discussion as since 2005 we've been travelling the world developing calibrations and certifying they work in at least all of the major markets throughout.  Currently, and for the foreseeable future, all remaps sold in the UK are certified, developed and tested in the UK by APR Motorsport, LTD prior to release to the public.

and more importantly, ALL North American ECUs have lean-burn mode disabled.  So how the heck can they claim it is safe in - quote - "your engine"??????

Perhaps you have confused something with the way VW Group released "lean burn" and how its been available and operated in the field.  Please allow me to clarify......

Only the AXX 2.0T FSI engine was released by VW in any 2.0T FSI VW Group vehicle that concerns APR's product line as "lean burn".  The AXX engine only operated as "lean burn" in the field anywhere in the world for approximately 1 year upon release.  All AXX's were ordered to be updated with new ECU software that removes "lean burn" operation.

Therefore, "lean burn" was only applicable for ~2005 model year 2.0T FSI VW Group cars as sold in the UK with the engine code of AXX.  In ~2006 all AXX engines with "lean burn" enabled were updated with new OEM software for the ECU by VW Group dealerships that removed the "lean burn" operating mode.  The only way you can have a "lean burn" 2.0T FSI VW Group engine in the UK is if you bought a AXX 2.0T FSI engine and never took it to a VW Group dealership after 2005.

And FWIW, we calibrated all of our ECU products applicable to the AXX in the UK.

quote author=PSItuning link=topic=41682.msg493395#msg493395 date=1328787292]
Who else offers switchability through cruise control at no extra charge?  you can have several maps, security lockout, valet mode, anti theft and TBE all through your cruise, most mapping companies cant offer these extra functions let alone through the cruise stalk, so no switching unit to buy.
O-rlly - that's quite an arrogant statement!  What about Revo?  What about GIAC?

Remember, there is more than one way to skin a rabbit - what about cars which do NOT have C/C ????  Oh, sorry, this is a yankie product where they automatically assume that every car everywhere else in the world follows the yankie spec!  :stupid:

I think Ade meant we are the only one that offers it through the CC without need for clumsy external devices to keep track of and hope you remembered to take out of your car before you went to the dealership.

And that we offer it included in the price of 499GBP whereas others offer program switching IN ADDITION to their single remap price, usually an additional 150GBP or more.

For those that don't have a car equipped with Cruise Control, you can spend the 150GBP we save you in price over the competition to have that CC retrofitted and get program switching and the convenience of a cruise control adding even more value for those that go APR.


Also all stage 2 upgrades on maps are free of charge, no £50/100 to upgrade your map, free of charge :)
Personally, I'd rather pay an additional £50 for an upgrade from a UK based company, with UK based R&D, which was developed on UK specification cars, using UK specification fuels, on UK specification tarmac, operating in UK weather conditions

Then why do you buy GERMAN CARS?  Following that logic, shouldn't you be on the Vauxhall forums?  :wink:

But, as stated above, all APR products sold in the UK are developed, certified and tested by APR Motorsport, LTD prior to release which happens to be on UK tarmac, with UK spec cars, UK fuel, UK weather conditions, blah, blah, so on and so forth.

- - - - rather than some burger munching bod who probably thinks he can 'do' a full tour of the UK in a three day  hire car rental.  :stupid:

But that is just my opinion, mind you!  :smiley:

Well as stated, I do like burgers.

and I've been living here since September so I've seen a bit more now.  I also spent over 2 months in the UK on different trips prior to moving here.

Hope this helps!  Let me know if you have any further questions or comments I can help clear up.  :drinking:
« Last Edit: February 10, 2012, 03:16:36 pm by Keith@APR »

Offline gazbutS3

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Re: APR stage 2+ v3.0
« Reply #298 on: February 10, 2012, 02:32:23 pm »
 :popcornsoda:

Offline Hedge

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Re: APR stage 2+ v3.0
« Reply #299 on: February 10, 2012, 03:02:44 pm »
Touche!  :signLOL:

 :popcornsoda: