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Author Topic: Ceramic coating of downpipe  (Read 14955 times)

Offline jhtrophy

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Re: Ceramic coating of downpipe
« Reply #75 on: February 14, 2012, 03:18:13 pm »
All this for a 2.0tfsi lol.



The engine the forum is based on....
Was going to say same thing
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Offline the bruce

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Re: Ceramic coating of downpipe
« Reply #76 on: February 14, 2012, 03:59:25 pm »
Rob, we don't need any formulas for a basic understanding.  :wink:


So what you are saying is that the pressure of the exhaust gases increases as does the
volume?

Not exactly. The volume itself causes that 'more' gas that has to pass the pipe.
More gas at the same time > increased speed > more drag and more work for
the engine to spill the gases out.

Why are aftermarked downpipes better? They are bigger. Larger diameter means
slower gas speed. Irritated? More diameter means that the same amount of gas
passes easier and less forced > lower speed required to let the same amount of
gas passing through it.

Even more - this is irony of fate - larger diameter means (much) larger surface and
larger surface provides increased cooling. That's (one reason) why Volkswagen
uses smaller diameters: they want to force cat heat up after start.


With a tyre, there is no where for the gases to escape to so its going to gain pressure in a
different way to an exhaust with an open end.  So surely the higher pressure will force the
exhaust gases out faster?

Alex, my example was just to explain that heating up gas (air) will gain an icrease in
volume (and pressure). It doesn't matter if there's something closed or if there's leak.
"You get what you pay for."

Offline vRS_Pagey

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Re: Ceramic coating of downpipe
« Reply #77 on: February 14, 2012, 04:25:26 pm »
All this for a 2.0tfsi lol.



The engine the forum is based on....

Took the words right out of my mouth!  :chicken:

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Offline PDT

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Re: Ceramic coating of downpipe
« Reply #78 on: February 14, 2012, 04:46:26 pm »
Had a response from one of the companies I emailed regarding the subject (they manufacture/design/develop exhaust systems for various applications from F1, WRC, World Gt and also helicopters) their response to the question I asked regarding coatings and their purpose in their applications highlighted 3 main factors:

Aiding gas flow
Controlling gas velocity and turbulence
Temperature control
Longevity of components

I did not mention that I would be posting their resonse online and their email response did state that all information held in their emails were strictly confidential, so I wont mention their name. They do however use Zircotec  :smiley:

Offline 56OctyVRS

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Re: Ceramic coating of downpipe
« Reply #79 on: February 14, 2012, 05:13:18 pm »
In gas, there is already low intermolecular interaction or force, but with an increase in temperature, each molecule has a greater momentum, and thus more momentum can be lost/transferred in a collision (e.g. molecular collision with the containment).
Gas molecules travel in straight lines and bounce off each other and objects.  The hotter the gas the faster they travel.  But the faster they travel slows down how fast they travel in a certain direction as they are bouncing around more.  This is shown in the link
http://www.physics.montana.edu/demonstrations/video/4_thermodynamics/demos/gasviscositychangewithtemperature.html.  
However for the purpose of cars we are talking very little difference in the actual performance impact on the engine, as the gas exit pressures are much higher. With the gas in the photo it was more to show a demonstration that hotter gas does travel slower.

Usually smaller exhausts help get rid of gases quicker using the scavenge effect.  This only really applies to N/A engines as the turbine wheel on a turbo/supercharger interferes with the gas pulses.  Once a pulse of gas is released into the exhaust it moves forward but there is a small gap left between each pulse.  We are talking microns here.  That gap is enough to act like a draft and help suck the next pulse along quicker.  Its the same theory that racing cars use with 'drafting'.
Heat wrap or ceramic coating does help keep the intake temps down and thus keeps the incoming (intake) gas more dense.  Its a trade off really.  I am having my downpipe wrapped by BCS purely to keep the intake temps down.
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Offline vRS Carl

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Re: Ceramic coating of downpipe
« Reply #80 on: February 14, 2012, 05:13:37 pm »
All this for a 2.0tfsi lol.

 :indifferent: :stupid:

All this for a 2.0tfsi lol.



The engine the forum is based on....

Took the words right out of my mouth!  :chicken:

Apparently no other engines exist apart from the 2.5TFSi.  :chicken:

Offline vRS Carl

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Re: Ceramic coating of downpipe
« Reply #81 on: February 14, 2012, 05:15:22 pm »
In gas, there is already low intermolecular interaction or force, but with an increase in temperature, each molecule has a greater momentum, and thus more momentum can be lost/transferred in a collision (e.g. molecular collision with the containment).
Gas molecules travel in straight lines and bounce off each other and objects.  The hotter the gas the faster they travel.  But the faster they travel slows down how fast they travel in a certain direction as they are bouncing around more.  This is shown in the link
http://www.physics.montana.edu/demonstrations/video/4_thermodynamics/demos/gasviscositychangewithtemperature.html.  
However for the purpose of cars we are talking very little difference in the actual performance impact on the engine, as the gas exit pressures are much higher. With the gas in the photo it was more to show a demonstration that hotter gas does travel slower.

Usually smaller exhausts help get rid of gases quicker using the scavenge effect.  This only really applies to N/A engines as the turbine wheel on a turbo/supercharger interferes with the gas pulses.  Once a pulse of gas is released into the exhaust it moves forward but there is a small gap left between each pulse.  We are talking microns here.  That gap is enough to act like a draft and help suck the next pulse along quicker.  Its the same theory that racing cars use with 'drafting'.
Heat wrap or ceramic coating does help keep the intake temps down and thus keeps the incoming (intake) gas more dense.  Its a trade off really.  I am having my downpipe wrapped by BCS purely to keep the intake temps down.

I read that article myself this morning.

Offline Poverty

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Re: Ceramic coating of downpipe
« Reply #82 on: February 14, 2012, 05:24:07 pm »
All this for a 2.0tfsi lol.

 :indifferent: :stupid:

All this for a 2.0tfsi lol.



The engine the forum is based on....

Took the words right out of my mouth!  :chicken:

Apparently no other engines exist apart from the 2.5TFSi.  :chicken:

 :grin:

KNew you guys would either bite, or miss the point. Instead you have done both.

It's a roadcar, whilst the scientific discussion behind it has got interesting, I'm not sure why it's turned so heated. At 80 pounds I'd say go for it not gonna break the bank, but will you notice the benefit on a stock turbo 2.0tfsi, or even the much much superior 2.5tfsi (which incidentally runs alot hotter) I doubt it.

More important things in life, but carry on anyway.

Blouse and skirt geezers lol.

Offline 56OctyVRS

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Re: Ceramic coating of downpipe
« Reply #83 on: February 14, 2012, 05:38:54 pm »
In gas, there is already low intermolecular interaction or force, but with an increase in temperature, each molecule has a greater momentum, and thus more momentum can be lost/transferred in a collision (e.g. molecular collision with the containment).
Gas molecules travel in straight lines and bounce off each other and objects.  The hotter the gas the faster they travel.  But the faster they travel slows down how fast they travel in a certain direction as they are bouncing around more.  This is shown in the link
http://www.physics.montana.edu/demonstrations/video/4_thermodynamics/demos/gasviscositychangewithtemperature.html.  
However for the purpose of cars we are talking very little difference in the actual performance impact on the engine, as the gas exit pressures are much higher. With the gas in the photo it was more to show a demonstration that hotter gas does travel slower.

Usually smaller exhausts help get rid of gases quicker using the scavenge effect.  This only really applies to N/A engines as the turbine wheel on a turbo/supercharger interferes with the gas pulses.  Once a pulse of gas is released into the exhaust it moves forward but there is a small gap left between each pulse.  We are talking microns here.  That gap is enough to act like a draft and help suck the next pulse along quicker.  Its the same theory that racing cars use with 'drafting'.
Heat wrap or ceramic coating does help keep the intake temps down and thus keeps the incoming (intake) gas more dense.  Its a trade off really.  I am having my downpipe wrapped by BCS purely to keep the intake temps down.

I read that article myself this morning.
[/quote

Hopefully it simplifies things for people with a visual demonstration and explanation about gas and the effects of heat.
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Offline keith

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Re: Ceramic coating of downpipe
« Reply #84 on: February 14, 2012, 11:41:14 pm »
Aye mate get it done :happy2:.

Offline the bruce

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Re: Ceramic coating of downpipe
« Reply #85 on: February 15, 2012, 02:08:07 pm »
Heat wrap or ceramic coating does help keep the intake temps down and thus keeps the incoming (intake) gas more dense.
 Its a trade off really.  I am having my downpipe wrapped by BCS purely to keep the intake temps down.

That's the point and as I said before the only reason I thought of wrapping my DP as well.

 :happy2:
"You get what you pay for."

Offline Powervalve Nige

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Re: Ceramic coating of downpipe
« Reply #86 on: February 20, 2012, 02:03:28 pm »
A couple of images showing with and without wrap on our downpipes...





Cheers
Nige
 :happy2:

Offline Tfsi_Mike

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Re: Ceramic coating of downpipe
« Reply #87 on: February 20, 2012, 08:39:37 pm »
A couple of images showing with and without wrap on our downpipes...





Cheers

Nige
 :happy2:

Would that one be going on a certain Leon Cupra today? :)

Offline Powervalve Nige

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Re: Ceramic coating of downpipe
« Reply #88 on: February 21, 2012, 10:43:15 am »
Yours is already on mate !!  :jumpmove:
« Last Edit: February 21, 2012, 10:58:05 am by nige bcs »

Offline craigy123

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Re: Ceramic coating of downpipe
« Reply #89 on: February 21, 2012, 11:04:59 am »
Yours is already on mate !!  :jumpmove:

You just made a mess in your pants Mike ?  :signLOL:


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