A fixed format for Product Review Threads....

[jhtrophy]

I find it funny how people think anybody would have a product on their car and keep it and say it was good if it wasn't! Even if it was free hi I'm going to pay 22k for a car, put sh*t brakes on and cos they were free keep em and say their great! Who cares if I have just messed up my car! I don't want to upset the Mr at vwr! Really? Matt is clearly a fan of vwr but trust me if they did not work he would tell em and put it in his review, He is a big boy and a grown

[MAT ED30]

I give up if I am being honest it's not worth posting a review as it just not worth people thinking you have things to hide and I don't and never have. Way too much arse licking of dave for me as when say Nigel at bcs says anything about a Product he gets shot down but dave gets to post whatever he wants on brakes.

[DaveB@Vagbremtechnic]

Well that's this thread sh*tcanned in relation to the title.

Matt , I apologise if I ended up playing the man instead of the ball then that was wrong and I'm sorry.

I never meant to insinuate you were doing anything sinister, the information you provided othe thread was no doubt supplied to you and you repeated it

that said, the VWR thread contained misconceptions and statements that blatantly were incorrect and defied traditional thinking at best and the laws of physics at worse.

the thread contained statements about the performance on track which were just not correct, the products were evolved and tested on the paying public which flys in the face of how good you thought they were when sales started

Do you think it's correct to leave misleading statements in a review when products haven't been paid for initially, I personally thinks its a huge conflict, I stayed silent for many months giving the benefit of the doubt to the kit.

People might value my opinion Matt because I don't give stuff away, who are people supposed to listen to VWR? who advocate putting calipers on upside down? Do I need to go onto EVERY established brake manufacturers website and show quotes that it's wrong or are VWR right because they're VWR?

@ JH Throphy

You need to reread pal never said the brakes were bad...in fact stated the opposite on several occasions, but I reserve the right to say what I want. VWR in the thread title or not.

Back on topic.....

[Greeners]

Mat I wouldn't take it all too seriously, I think your review is being used as a case in point and know one harbours any bad feeling towards you. Keep your toys where they are, we already have enough drama queens on here!!  

We already have a suggested format for product reviews - http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,438.0.html its just that most prefer to ignore it. And had been previously mentioned, what someone has/hasn't paid for an item shouldn't change peoples own perceptions. Unfortunately there will always be sheep that will buy $hit regardless of how good it is because 'so and so' has one so it must be good!!  

I think everyone needs to take a step back from the keyboard. Were all adults with our own methods of decision making, and that will always be the case. So lets not try and reinvent the wheel and fall out over a very small part of this wonderful forum!

[MAT ED30]

i did pay for em but i will not say what i paid as it has nothing to do with my view on a product and if its crap you know me well enough to say its crap  . i respect everyones view on things but i think dave should act like a trader as thats what he is if he is selling a product on any sites and to be honest i know of a few product of his that have not be dealt with in a manner i see as good but like i say too much arse licking dave for me. I know he does not like vwr but he does not control how i spend my money and its unto each person to make a choice and make there own mind up on a product and like i have said add to the product review any problems anyone is having with that product. i am still happy with all my mods on my car and won't bad mouth a company who ever they are if all they have ever done is be good to me i don't like it and will not go down that route when i am happy  

[RedRobin]

Well that's this thread sh*tcanned in relation to the title.

....I think you brought that on yourself when you posted saying you beat me to the subject in the thread I started (locked by myself and now deleted by the Mods), hence bringing that discussion here and away from the VWR brakes review - A good idea which we both (independently) felt would be for the best. You bringing it to the Forum Suggestions pages was particularly appropriate too.

Surely ALL these aspects we are now discussing are relevant and shape the way forward. It's good that we can all have calm and reasoned discussion whether we agree or not  

[stealthwolf]

My 2p here:

A standard review format is always a good idea. At the very least, it allows people to consider all aspects of a review. Something that encompasses the majority of points is far more helpful than something which relies on a particular aspect, even if it is biased. It's quite easy for people to think they have the best item for the best price and that they are awesome. I also agree that there should be updates to the reviews - not a change of the original (Which should be left untouched IMO) but an addendum or similar which describes things twelve months down the line - any problems that have popped up, any aftersales care issues etc.

DOI/COI - declaration (or conflict) of interest - normally denoted in journals with respect to the authors. If someone has authored an article on the merits of xyz and have had backing from the company producing xyz eg free product, free aftersales care etc, then from professional standards it needs to be mentioned. Otherwise it casts the whole paper and the authors in a negative light. By being upfront and open about these things, it demonstrates professionalism and common courtesy IMO. Whilst I accept that this isn't the likes of the Lancet, it would still be considerate to others to be open about any interests by the forumite.

Essentially, the more reviews we have, the more accurate a picture is built. It won't be truly accurate and everyone will always have a different experience - we are after all individuals but if everyone posts their honest review, it can only help to serve others. Surely, that's the point of a review?

[h4rdy]

If BDM gave me an intake for free I would say that it's the bestest intake.....

Just in case anybody thinks that I got that intake for free on the review pages is hugely mistaken!

This is BDM we are talking about!

Anyway if it was me and I got something for free and it was complete rubbish you would know about it!

Just clearing that up just in case!

[Tamiyoman]

I think reviews in standard format works and should make for easy comparisons between future (competing products), easy to understand and see headline details and not too much waffle......

It should state clearly at the top if said product was paid for in full, discount given on basis of writing review or if you got it for free then peeps can make their own mind up based on the review and the money paid.

Regards Matts posts, I dont know anything about dave or any arse lickin (probably too new to understand that) but I have seen nige at BCS shot down a couple of times (Top cat I think was one pullin the trigger one time) and I asked what it was about, no reply!?, just hope its nowt sinister like BCS not giving free stuff to Mods/site owners and others doing it for pref treatment, im sure its not but................make those suspicious minds think, seen other sites like that too often.. 


My views on BDM.............seen lots of negative press on here, probably from the same half dozen people, dont know them, dont have or intend to buy their products, dont care.......

View on VWR, dont they just buy other folks products and stick a VWR label on them and charge 50% more?, it seems like thats about what it comes down to?

[Top Cat]

 but I have seen nige at BCS shot down a couple of times (Top cat I think was one pullin the trigger one time) and I asked what it was about, no reply!?, just hope its nowt sinister like BCS not giving free stuff to Mods/site owners and others doing it for pref treatment, im sure its not but................make those suspicious minds think, seen other sites like that too often.. 

Yes you have hit the nail on the head, i was that upset at BCS for not giving me free stuff like all the other companies do, that i decided to pick on him. 
If you dont mind, we will manage how the forum works in relation to companies wanting to advertise. You just stick to telling everyone what their ED 30's are worth and how great you were at getting yours so cheap.   

[SteveP]

I can also have my free BCS exhaust 

[Greeners]

Oooh me too!!! 

[RedRobin]

.
Having written a few reviews here I always start off trying to follow a format but it doesn't always suit what the product is. Therefore I suggest strict guidelines but not rigid to the point of making the headings irrelevant.

As well as being informative, reviews should be enjoyable to read and be as fully illustrated with photos and/or diagrams as possible.

[Tamiyoman]

Yes you have hit the nail on the head, i was that upset at BCS for not giving me free stuff like all the other companies do, that i decided to pick on him.  
If you dont mind, we will manage how the forum works in relation to companies wanting to advertise. You just stick to telling everyone what their ED 30's are worth and how great you were at getting yours so cheap.    

[/quote]

Twas the sort of reply I half expected, rather than reply with an answer you have a pop at me for answering other folks questions  

Looking at prices of ED30's now, I dont think I got mine cheap   market price more like (Its my opinion, you have your own too im sure), regards how great I am I dont think thats up for debate  

As for managing how the forum works, I dont believe I offered advice on how it should work?   merely questioned why one person gets warned about something and others not so (it seems), perhaps thats forum rules I am not aware of?, still not answered either  

If BCS are giving free exhausts can I have one too or do I need to be a Mod?  

[DaveB@Vagbremtechnic]

thin Ice there buddy....

I did a favour for a mod one time and didn't want paying, got a PM from said Mod asking what the value was. That value was put into the forum coffers....thought that was pretty proper myself.

Ive given more stuff away to non mods than anything to mods, wouldn't want to be seen to be try to be achieving favour.

I've got some Polo stuff going on a car soon at less than retail, if the cars owner doesn't cough to what was paid then I'll be putting it up here.

This site is refreshingly free from commercial operators, the worst kind is the box shifting "Tuners" who offer price lists and not advice. There's a people on here me included that sell some stuff, some more than others, the suspects are identified as traders so that people new to the forum are aware that posters may have a vested interest..

I try to put a bit back in to the equation in terms of advice.

So getting back to it.....notwithstanding that free endorsements, "sponsored" reviews are rife, endemic on other forums could we not try to make things a little more transparent on here by stating which category the product falls into maybe as such...

1. Gifted for free to spread the word
2. Done at cost/heavy discount as user aided development
3. Normal purchase asked for a discount got told to poke off
4. Normal purchase I didn't pay the asking price so a saving to be had - make your own enquiries

And before we get back into the VWR thing ^^^^^^ That's not addresses at anybody, I've already budgeted £80 for burgers at Inters