Make a donation

Author Topic: airtec intercooler same as forge only cheaper  (Read 34372 times)

Offline Tamiyoman

  • Just look at my post count
  • ******
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 2
  • -Receive: 39
  • Posts: 1352
  • Prev car - Candy DSG ED30 No. 2235
    • Email
Re: airtec intercooler same as forge only cheaper
« Reply #15 on: April 05, 2012, 07:01:23 pm »

Just cause it has not got a forge sticker (and pricetag to go with it) does not mean its tat, I agree that some crap from China is cheap and nasty but as they catch up on manufacturing quality (as well as the quantity they can already deliver) it spells trouble for the likes of Forge/APR with their prices on hardware, will be good for the market tho, not so much for forges profit margins  :happy2:


....I wouldn't be too quick to jump to conclusions about either Forge or APR's profit margins. Yes, we should all want them to make a profit so that they can stay in business and bring worthwhile products to market.

APR spend huge amounts on R & D. Forge spend a large proportion of a product's cost on its high standard of engineering manufacture. I'm not saying that their products couldn't be cheaper (having just bought an APR HPFP I wish they were!) but the profit margins are probably not as high as you imagine., particularly in Forge's case which is a relatively small British company.

Hey Robin, we all know about the money they spend on R & D, they themselves bleat on about it enough to justify the prices they ask  :signLOL:

I have lots of friends in engineering backgrounds and when I tell them the price of X (A tuning product like forge twintercooler), they usually say "I am in the wrong job" or to make that would cost X (About 20% of what they sell for) that must be some large R & D bill  :happy2:
MK7 Golf R, Pure White 3Dr DSG, Had since 10/06/14

Offline tony_danza

  • Just look at my post count
  • ******
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 3
  • -Receive: 112
  • Posts: 3013
  • The voice of objective reason, but mine's best.
Re: airtec intercooler same as forge only cheaper
« Reply #16 on: April 05, 2012, 07:02:23 pm »
Not wishing to cast aspersions on where they've acquired these from - but when stuff is sent to China to be copied, it generally comes back as worthless tat.

You pays your money, you takes your chances.

Just cause it has not got a forge sticker (and pricetag to go with it) does not mean its tat, I agree that some crap from China is cheap and nasty but as they catch up on manufacturing quality (as well as the quantity they can already deliver) it spells trouble for the likes of Forge/APR with their prices on hardware, will be good for the market tho, not so much for forges profit margins  :happy2:

And agreed yes black=heatsoak, best stick with std silver.

So Forge can spend all the time and money developing something, only for the Chinese to copy and sell cheaper, and that's ok? - You perpetuate that problem, you take money out of innovation. = Why our manufacturing is on its arse.
Sideways yo!

Offline Tamiyoman

  • Just look at my post count
  • ******
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 2
  • -Receive: 39
  • Posts: 1352
  • Prev car - Candy DSG ED30 No. 2235
    • Email
Re: airtec intercooler same as forge only cheaper
« Reply #17 on: April 05, 2012, 07:10:34 pm »
Not wishing to cast aspersions on where they've acquired these from - but when stuff is sent to China to be copied, it generally comes back as worthless tat.

You pays your money, you takes your chances.

Just cause it has not got a forge sticker (and pricetag to go with it) does not mean its tat, I agree that some crap from China is cheap and nasty but as they catch up on manufacturing quality (as well as the quantity they can already deliver) it spells trouble for the likes of Forge/APR with their prices on hardware, will be good for the market tho, not so much for forges profit margins  :happy2:

And agreed yes black=heatsoak, best stick with std silver.

So Forge can spend all the time and money developing something, only for the Chinese to copy and sell cheaper, and that's ok? - You perpetuate that problem, you take money out of innovation. = Why our manufacturing is on its arse.

I dont think I am to blame for the country being on its arse or the manufacturing of products, I think its more to do with other countries making the same product (Copied or based on a similar design) for much less money, bottom line if they do the same thing and made to same quality one by "British" hands at XX and one by "Foreign" hands at X I think i know what I would do, others I cant vouch for. I am pretty sure products were being copied or used for development (Like all companies do) well before I was even alive  :signLOL:

The issue stems from the chinese not signing up to the international copyright charter, they can do what they want over there  :signLOL:

Even Revo used APR code in their maps, intake systems widely copied and altered, everything is based on something.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2012, 07:14:41 pm by Tamiyoman »
MK7 Golf R, Pure White 3Dr DSG, Had since 10/06/14

Offline PDT

  • Just look at my post count
  • ******
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 3
  • -Receive: 142
  • Posts: 2010
    • Email

Offline tony_danza

  • Just look at my post count
  • ******
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 3
  • -Receive: 112
  • Posts: 3013
  • The voice of objective reason, but mine's best.
Re: airtec intercooler same as forge only cheaper
« Reply #19 on: April 05, 2012, 07:15:33 pm »
Sorry, I wasn't picking at you, Tamiyoman.

I avoid Chinese goods, with the exception (through gritted teeth) of Apple, wherever possible. They buy our excellent raw materials and sell them back to us as sh*te.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2012, 07:17:19 pm by tony_danza »
Sideways yo!

Offline Tamiyoman

  • Just look at my post count
  • ******
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 2
  • -Receive: 39
  • Posts: 1352
  • Prev car - Candy DSG ED30 No. 2235
    • Email
Re: airtec intercooler same as forge only cheaper
« Reply #20 on: April 05, 2012, 07:16:03 pm »
MK7 Golf R, Pure White 3Dr DSG, Had since 10/06/14

Offline Tamiyoman

  • Just look at my post count
  • ******
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 2
  • -Receive: 39
  • Posts: 1352
  • Prev car - Candy DSG ED30 No. 2235
    • Email
Re: airtec intercooler same as forge only cheaper
« Reply #21 on: April 05, 2012, 07:17:39 pm »
Sorry, I wasn't picking at you.

I avoid Chinese goods, with the exception (through gritted teeth) of Apple, wherever possible. They buy our excellent raw materials and sell them back to us as sh*te.

No worries  :happy2: I understand your feeling, I have it for some things and others I disagree with UK high prices especcially as half these high priced UK goods are made in china  :stupid:
MK7 Golf R, Pure White 3Dr DSG, Had since 10/06/14

Offline PDT

  • Just look at my post count
  • ******
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 3
  • -Receive: 142
  • Posts: 2010
    • Email
Re: airtec intercooler same as forge only cheaper
« Reply #22 on: April 05, 2012, 07:27:12 pm »
Theres cheaper ways to buy copies:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VW-GOLF-MK5-2-0T-FSI-FMIC-FRONT-MOUNT-INTERCOOLER-KIT-/380346448597?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item588e6a3ad5#ht_1644wt_929



 :signLOL: same one available from Hong Kong for £110  :happy2:, would not buy one tho, bit too cheap  :signLOL:



Ok, I will buy it, brand it as something like 'Pro-Cool twin front mount intercooler conversion' and make a few lines on a website claiming they have had thorough research and delelopment, throw in a few irrelevant dyno figures and sell them on in the UK for £400 each. Maybe do a few 1/2 price with free fitting to some forum users and before you know it they will be the best thing since sliced salami.

How would you like o pay?

Offline gazon69

  • Just look at my post count
  • ******
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 20
  • -Receive: 34
  • Posts: 1017
Re: airtec intercooler same as forge only cheaper
« Reply #23 on: April 05, 2012, 07:34:32 pm »
I think tbh that if you put the products side by side without a badge on them did a blind test and one if the cheaper ones came out on top performance wise you would purchase that one. Personally i dont care where they are made, if it does the job equally as well and looks as well made then i would buy one. I for one will be watching this and keen to see what results it produces.

Offline GrayMK5GTI

  • Global Moderator
  • Just look at my post count
  • *
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 125
  • -Receive: 248
  • Posts: 4165
Re: airtec intercooler same as forge only cheaper
« Reply #24 on: April 05, 2012, 07:38:34 pm »

Just cause it has not got a forge sticker (and pricetag to go with it) does not mean its tat, I agree that some crap from China is cheap and nasty but as they catch up on manufacturing quality (as well as the quantity they can already deliver) it spells trouble for the likes of Forge/APR with their prices on hardware, will be good for the market tho, not so much for forges profit margins  :happy2:


....I wouldn't be too quick to jump to conclusions about either Forge or APR's profit margins. Yes, we should all want them to make a profit so that they can stay in business and bring worthwhile products to market.

APR spend huge amounts on R & D. Forge spend a large proportion of a product's cost on its high standard of engineering manufacture. I'm not saying that their products couldn't be cheaper (having just bought an APR HPFP I wish they were!) but the profit margins are probably not as high as you imagine., particularly in Forge's case which is a relatively small British company.

Oi Oi do I detect a hint that your going 2+ Robin?? :grin:
NOW: 2015 Golf R DSG 5 Door, Lapiz Blue, 19s, Discover Nav, Reversing Camera
GONE:2007 Black GTI Edition 30 3dr

Offline PDT

  • Just look at my post count
  • ******
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 3
  • -Receive: 142
  • Posts: 2010
    • Email
Re: airtec intercooler same as forge only cheaper
« Reply #25 on: April 05, 2012, 07:39:59 pm »
I know of someone that bought a cheap front mount, fitted it and all was fine until a bit of thin metal came loose and was blasted at 2 bar of boost into the inlet manifold.

Offline Russ_leeds

  • Won't Shut up.
  • *****
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 24
  • -Receive: 16
  • Posts: 526
Re: airtec intercooler same as forge only cheaper
« Reply #26 on: April 05, 2012, 07:44:05 pm »
I know of someone that bought a cheap front mount, fitted it and all was fine until a bit of thin metal came loose and was blasted at 2 bar of boost into the inlet manifold.

 :scared: :scared: :popcornsoda:
Black 2007 gti, 18' monza 2, sat-nav, highline, i-pod dock, armrest, 35mm H&R springs, WALK, BCS tbe, autotech front and rear arbs, ITG maxogen, NQSBBK... and more to come

Offline RedRobin

  • Just look at my post count
  • ******
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 380
  • -Receive: 442
  • Posts: 16627
  • BIALI Motorsport's Chief Horn Blower
Re: airtec intercooler same as forge only cheaper
« Reply #27 on: April 05, 2012, 07:58:08 pm »

Oi Oi do I detect a hint that your going 2+ Robin?? :grin:


....As posted elsewhere, not at this time. :happy2:


On facebook: https://www.facebook.com/robin.procter.50

Throbbin' Red Mk5 GTI DSG with too many mods to list - Have Fun but Safe Journeys!

Offline Tamiyoman

  • Just look at my post count
  • ******
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 2
  • -Receive: 39
  • Posts: 1352
  • Prev car - Candy DSG ED30 No. 2235
    • Email
Re: airtec intercooler same as forge only cheaper
« Reply #28 on: April 05, 2012, 09:32:24 pm »
I think tbh that if you put the products side by side without a badge on them did a blind test and one if the cheaper ones came out on top performance wise you would purchase that one. Personally i dont care where they are made, if it does the job equally as well and looks as well made then i would buy one. I for one will be watching this and keen to see what results it produces.

You said what I was thinking, as im only planning on going stage 2 anyway fuel pump and intercooler are not in my plans.

 :congrats:
MK7 Golf R, Pure White 3Dr DSG, Had since 10/06/14

Offline RedRobin

  • Just look at my post count
  • ******
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 380
  • -Receive: 442
  • Posts: 16627
  • BIALI Motorsport's Chief Horn Blower
Re: airtec intercooler same as forge only cheaper
« Reply #29 on: April 05, 2012, 10:27:18 pm »

im only planning on going stage 2 anyway fuel pump and intercooler are not in my plans.


....The intercooler still isn't in my plans and the fuel pump also wasn't at the time I went to Stage 2, but as soon as an efficient aftermarket air intake was fitted the remap needed its settings reduced to safeguard against fuel-cuts while using the standard pump. Changing to a HPFP (APR) has allowed my Stage 2 settings to be restored and release more of Stage 2's potential. I still plan to stay on stage 2.

But, I am K03 GTI and you are K04 Ed30 so our Stage 2 remaps are different, but our fuel pumps the same I think.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2012, 10:29:03 pm by RedRobin »


On facebook: https://www.facebook.com/robin.procter.50

Throbbin' Red Mk5 GTI DSG with too many mods to list - Have Fun but Safe Journeys!