Should they bring back hanging

[RedRobin]

Prisons are like holiday camps, so they become institutionalised very easily, and often go out and commit crime immediately because they actually want to get back in!
They can't lose, if they get away with the crimes, they make money, and if they get caught, it's back to Butlins!

Prisons should be cold, uncomfortable, boring and blo*dy hard work if they are to act as a deterent.

....Er, contrary to popular belief, HM Prisons are far from holiday camps. The biggest punishment is the total curtailment of the freedoms which we folks outside experience every day.

My 'prison experience' has been visiting a close friend (every week) for a year while he was on remand in Brixton and then Wandsworth - An American Indian mate who wouldn't grass on his friends. Also, another friend (very wealthy Old Etonian chappie) did 2 years for financial fraud in The City - They made an example of him. He's just as wealthy after his experience and has some new friends! Being a Public School boy doubtless helped him survive.

It doesn't look like a holiday camp to me. Overcrowding conditions etc is also well known.

Be aware that it's a thin line.

[andrewparker]

Very true... so what punishment do you suggest? If i came to your house and shot a family member, what would a suitable punishment be for me?

People argue that the death penalty brings closure to those who have lost loved ones. I'd argue that you'll never really know what brings closure until you're in that position. I'd also argue that the death penalty provides insufficient retribution. Death is final, it ends a persons suffering. Life imprisonment without parole causes much more suffering to the offender than a painless death after a short period of imprisonment.

[andrewparker]

By the way, in saying that I don't mean to condone retribution. I think it's morally flawed, and in reality is just a sanitised form of ugly, brutal vengeance. It's completely inappropriate for modern, civilised society.

[RedRobin]

^^^^
I'm agreeing with both your posts, Andrew.

Seeking vengeance in the form of a death sentence is a natural reaction and emotion but that doesn't make it right. Having said that, if I catch you scratching my beloved car, you are dead! It's just a matter of time! 

[JPC]

By the way, in saying that I don't mean to condone retribution. I think it's morally flawed, and in reality is just a sanitised form of ugly, brutal vengeance. It's completely inappropriate for modern, civilised society.

I completely agree with you there Andrew. In a modern society, there is no place for us to take the lives of others. I do however believe that there are a certain group of criminals that deserve no chance of rehabilitation back into society. The kind of people who rape, calculated murderers, pedophiles etc should be put in jail in awful conditions and see out there days in there. A life sentence to mean a life sentence. The only time they come out of that jail is in a Co-op standard ply box!

I would hate to see our justice system come close to somewhere like the US'. It clearly doesn't work.

[Tamiyoman]

By the way, in saying that I don't mean to condone retribution. I think it's morally flawed, and in reality is just a sanitised form of ugly, brutal vengeance. It's completely inappropriate for modern, civilised society.

I completely agree with you there Andrew. In a modern society, there is no place for us to take the lives of others. I do however believe that there are a certain group of criminals that deserve no chance of rehabilitation back into society. The kind of people who rape, calculated murderers, pedophiles etc should be put in jail in awful conditions and see out there days in there. A life sentence to mean a life sentence. The only time they come out of that jail is in a Co-op standard ply box!

I would hate to see our justice system come close to somewhere like the US'. It clearly doesn't work.

But why should "we" the taxpayers fund their prison lifestyles?, unless they are working hard labour and paying for their own keep and making a profit that the gov can use to reduce national debt (or make the roads better  ) then they shold be disposed of as they bring nothing to society apart from crime and grief for others.

[andrewparker]

By the way, in saying that I don't mean to condone retribution. I think it's morally flawed, and in reality is just a sanitised form of ugly, brutal vengeance. It's completely inappropriate for modern, civilised society.

I completely agree with you there Andrew. In a modern society, there is no place for us to take the lives of others. I do however believe that there are a certain group of criminals that deserve no chance of rehabilitation back into society. The kind of people who rape, calculated murderers, pedophiles etc should be put in jail in awful conditions and see out there days in there. A life sentence to mean a life sentence. The only time they come out of that jail is in a Co-op standard ply box!

I would hate to see our justice system come close to somewhere like the US'. It clearly doesn't work.

But why should "we" the taxpayers fund their prison lifestyles?, unless they are working hard labour and paying for their own keep and making a profit that the gov can use to reduce national debt (or make the roads better  ) then they shold be disposed of as they bring nothing to society apart from crime and grief for others.

Yet again, a misinformed opinion. For a start it is ridiculous to think of justice in financial terms, but more importantly the legal costs of Capital Punishment are many, many times more than that of lifetime imprisonment without parole. I think the average cost in the US is $23m for each person condemned to death.

[andrewparker]

I knew the "cost to the taxpayer" argument would rear it's ugly head. Back it up with facts people, or your arguments mean nothing.

[simonp]

Being honest I don't like anyone taking someones life it's such a precious thing to lose

Very true... so what punishment do you suggest? If i came to your house and shot a family member, what would a suitable punishment be for me?

No waffles for a year?

[Mk5 GTian]

Prisons are like holiday camps, so they become institutionalised very easily, and often go out and commit crime immediately because they actually want to get back in!
They can't lose, if they get away with the crimes, they make money, and if they get caught, it's back to Butlins!

Prisons should be cold, uncomfortable, boring and blo*dy hard work if they are to act as a deterent.

....Er, contrary to popular belief, HM Prisons are far from holiday camps. The biggest punishment is the total curtailment of the freedoms which we folks outside experience every day.

My 'prison experience' has been visiting a close friend (every week) for a year while he was on remand in Brixton and then Wandsworth - An American Indian mate who wouldn't grass on his friends. Also, another friend (very wealthy Old Etonian chappie) did 2 years for financial fraud in The City - They made an example of him. He's just as wealthy after his experience and has some new friends! Being a Public School boy doubtless helped him survive.

It doesn't look like a holiday camp to me. Overcrowding conditions etc is also well known.

Be aware that it's a thin line.

But Robin, do you not think that TV's digital radios, Playstations and Facebook access are not luxuries that make it too comfortable? I have come across repeat offenders who have personally bragged to me about how cushtie it is in there, and they have no fear of going back inside. They also brag about how little work they do in there.

In order to rehabilitate more effectively I think they should be made to work incredibly hard to repay their debt to society, and also have little or no luxuries, so it holds no attraction whatsoever.    

[Tamiyoman]

By the way, in saying that I don't mean to condone retribution. I think it's morally flawed, and in reality is just a sanitised form of ugly, brutal vengeance. It's completely inappropriate for modern, civilised society.

I completely agree with you there Andrew. In a modern society, there is no place for us to take the lives of others. I do however believe that there are a certain group of criminals that deserve no chance of rehabilitation back into society. The kind of people who rape, calculated murderers, pedophiles etc should be put in jail in awful conditions and see out there days in there. A life sentence to mean a life sentence. The only time they come out of that jail is in a Co-op standard ply box!

I would hate to see our justice system come close to somewhere like the US'. It clearly doesn't work.

But why should "we" the taxpayers fund their prison lifestyles?, unless they are working hard labour and paying for their own keep and making a profit that the gov can use to reduce national debt (or make the roads better  ) then they shold be disposed of as they bring nothing to society apart from crime and grief for others.

Yet again, a misinformed opinion. For a start it is ridiculous to think of justice in financial terms, but more importantly the legal costs of Capital Punishment are many, many times more than that of lifetime imprisonment without parole. I think the average cost in the US is $23m for each person condemned to death.

Misinformed?, dont think so!, the average prisoner costs more to "Care for in prison" than the average person earns each year!!, so not only are these people NOT contributing to society they are actually costing taxpayers money, its a double whammy!!.

Take a peek at the UK Justice accounts for breakdowns.

http://www.justice.gov.uk/downloads/statistics/hmps/prison-costs-summary-10-11.pdf/

Roughly £28k per prisoner per year, £3.15 Billion last year providing 3 meals, Playstations, Sky TV etc

[JPC]

By the way, in saying that I don't mean to condone retribution. I think it's morally flawed, and in reality is just a sanitised form of ugly, brutal vengeance. It's completely inappropriate for modern, civilised society.

I completely agree with you there Andrew. In a modern society, there is no place for us to take the lives of others. I do however believe that there are a certain group of criminals that deserve no chance of rehabilitation back into society. The kind of people who rape, calculated murderers, pedophiles etc should be put in jail in awful conditions and see out there days in there. A life sentence to mean a life sentence. The only time they come out of that jail is in a Co-op standard ply box!

I would hate to see our justice system come close to somewhere like the US'. It clearly doesn't work.

But why should "we" the taxpayers fund their prison lifestyles?, unless they are working hard labour and paying for their own keep and making a profit that the gov can use to reduce national debt (or make the roads better  ) then they shold be disposed of as they bring nothing to society apart from crime and grief for others.

Because thats what a civilised society does! Would you rather not pay tax and live in a largely lawless state?? where you have to pay for protection or get mugged or your kids get raped?? Extreme but think about it! why shouldn't we contribute to a fair justice system? I really don't understand why people have a problem keeping criminals away in jail.

When people in mass co-exist, there will always be crime, violence and the need for a justice system. We will always to an extent have to pay to live in a civilised place. If you don't like it, i guess you could move to columbia?

I do however think there is no harm in giving prisoners who are in for non violent offences the oppertunity to develop new, practical skills. They could be put to use to improve the infrastructure of the country no problem. But, imagine the haters you'd get if they implemented that!!

[Tamiyoman]

By the way, in saying that I don't mean to condone retribution. I think it's morally flawed, and in reality is just a sanitised form of ugly, brutal vengeance. It's completely inappropriate for modern, civilised society.

I completely agree with you there Andrew. In a modern society, there is no place for us to take the lives of others. I do however believe that there are a certain group of criminals that deserve no chance of rehabilitation back into society. The kind of people who rape, calculated murderers, pedophiles etc should be put in jail in awful conditions and see out there days in there. A life sentence to mean a life sentence. The only time they come out of that jail is in a Co-op standard ply box!

I would hate to see our justice system come close to somewhere like the US'. It clearly doesn't work.

But why should "we" the taxpayers fund their prison lifestyles?, unless they are working hard labour and paying for their own keep and making a profit that the gov can use to reduce national debt (or make the roads better  ) then they shold be disposed of as they bring nothing to society apart from crime and grief for others.

Because thats what a civilised society does! Would you rather not pay tax and live in a largely lawless state?? where you have to pay for protection or get mugged or your kids get raped?? Extreme but think about it! why shouldn't we contribute to a fair justice system? I really don't understand why people have a problem keeping criminals away in jail.

When people in mass co-exist, there will always be crime, violence and the need for a justice system. We will always to an extent have to pay to live in a civilised place. If you don't like it, i guess you could move to columbia?

I do however think there is no harm in giving prisoners who are in for non violent offences the oppertunity to develop new, practical skills. They could be put to use to improve the infrastructure of the country no problem. But, imagine the haters you'd get if they implemented that!!

No one said they wanted to live in a lawless state, I think the general consensus is they need to get tougher, make them work 8-10 hours a day like most honest people do (If it was up to me they would be in chain gangs filling pot-holes for their full sentence, preferably in the pissing rain!), take away their pool tables, sky TV and playststions, its supposed to be a prison not a holiday camp (in fact some prisons are probably better than some Butlin's camps, minus the getting ass raped if you can't look after yourself, altho for a few on here those last 2 points would not be an issue  )

[RedRobin]

.
I don't agree at all with the taxpayer justification - It's not a financial issue. If I don't pay tax or 'contribute' to UK society (whatever that is) should I be put in prison? - Perhaps no-one should answer that! 

It isn't so black and white - People get put in prison for a whole variety of reasons or crimes and not all are cold blooded murderers or paedophiles.

[JPC]

.
I don't agree at all with the taxpayer justification - It's not a financial issue.

Exactly, money shouldn't get in the way of making decisions about someones sentence.