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Author Topic: Should they bring back hanging  (Read 11624 times)

Offline edd666999

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Re: Should they bring back hanging
« Reply #45 on: May 15, 2012, 12:16:36 pm »
i worked in a CAT C prison had both people serving life and people serving time for pedophilia, rape and what not.

Although life isn't a free roam around streets and freedom to go to the pub, for some its better than the life they had outside.

Offline Tamiyoman

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Re: Should they bring back hanging
« Reply #46 on: May 15, 2012, 12:16:53 pm »
.
I don't agree at all with the taxpayer justification - It's not a financial issue. If I don't pay tax or 'contribute' to UK society (whatever that is) should I be put in prison? - Perhaps no-one should answer that!  :laugh:

It isn't so black and white - People get put in prison for a whole variety of reasons or crimes and not all are cold blooded murderers or paedophiles.

I disagree Robin (yay, we are back on track!) the country is on its ass, in these times of austerity, financial matters should be included, if all prisoners worked and covered their costs which "society" pays (That's the taxpayer or honest person in general terms) then it would not be an issue, but as they are only taking from society and not contributing why should they live better than the people who work on the poverty line and why should they get housed/looked after for free when there are thousands of homeless people that don't get that?.

While I am on my soapbox, they should drastically reform the state benefits so its actually better for the "Scroungers" to work than sit at home collecting benefits because they had the forsight to have a few kids and let the government pay for it.  :popcornsoda:

Steppin off ma soapbox now  :innocent:

Sorry chaps back on topic, bring back hanging?, no, shoot em its cheaper!



« Last Edit: May 15, 2012, 12:18:37 pm by Tamiyoman »
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Offline andrewparker

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Re: Should they bring back hanging
« Reply #47 on: May 15, 2012, 12:23:39 pm »
By the way, in saying that I don't mean to condone retribution. I think it's morally flawed, and in reality is just a sanitised form of ugly, brutal vengeance. It's completely inappropriate for modern, civilised society.

I completely agree with you there Andrew. In a modern society, there is no place for us to take the lives of others. I do however believe that there are a certain group of criminals that deserve no chance of rehabilitation back into society. The kind of people who rape, calculated murderers, pedophiles etc should be put in jail in awful conditions and see out there days in there. A life sentence to mean a life sentence. The only time they come out of that jail is in a Co-op standard ply box!

I would hate to see our justice system come close to somewhere like the US'. It clearly doesn't work.

But why should "we" the taxpayers fund their prison lifestyles?, unless they are working hard labour and paying for their own keep and making a profit that the gov can use to reduce national debt (or make the roads better  :happy2:) then they shold be disposed of as they bring nothing to society apart from crime and grief for others.

Yet again, a misinformed opinion. For a start it is ridiculous to think of justice in financial terms, but more importantly the legal costs of Capital Punishment are many, many times more than that of lifetime imprisonment without parole. I think the average cost in the US is $23m for each person condemned to death.

Misinformed?, dont think so!, the average prisoner costs more to "Care for in prison" than the average person earns each year!!, so not only are these people NOT contributing to society they are actually costing taxpayers money, its a double whammy!!.

Take a peek at the UK Justice accounts for breakdowns.

http://www.justice.gov.uk/downloads/statistics/hmps/prison-costs-summary-10-11.pdf/

Roughly £28k per prisoner per year, £3.15 Billion last year providing 3 meals, Playstations, Sky TV etc

The specific question is whether the death penalty should be reintroduced. You suggest it would save money. I countered with facts that it does indeed cost many times more to execute someone.

Offline edd666999

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Re: Should they bring back hanging
« Reply #48 on: May 15, 2012, 12:24:55 pm »
By the way, in saying that I don't mean to condone retribution. I think it's morally flawed, and in reality is just a sanitised form of ugly, brutal vengeance. It's completely inappropriate for modern, civilised society.

I completely agree with you there Andrew. In a modern society, there is no place for us to take the lives of others. I do however believe that there are a certain group of criminals that deserve no chance of rehabilitation back into society. The kind of people who rape, calculated murderers, pedophiles etc should be put in jail in awful conditions and see out there days in there. A life sentence to mean a life sentence. The only time they come out of that jail is in a Co-op standard ply box!

I would hate to see our justice system come close to somewhere like the US'. It clearly doesn't work.

But why should "we" the taxpayers fund their prison lifestyles?, unless they are working hard labour and paying for their own keep and making a profit that the gov can use to reduce national debt (or make the roads better  :happy2:) then they shold be disposed of as they bring nothing to society apart from crime and grief for others.

Yet again, a misinformed opinion. For a start it is ridiculous to think of justice in financial terms, but more importantly the legal costs of Capital Punishment are many, many times more than that of lifetime imprisonment without parole. I think the average cost in the US is $23m for each person condemned to death.

Misinformed?, dont think so!, the average prisoner costs more to "Care for in prison" than the average person earns each year!!, so not only are these people NOT contributing to society they are actually costing taxpayers money, its a double whammy!!.

Take a peek at the UK Justice accounts for breakdowns.

http://www.justice.gov.uk/downloads/statistics/hmps/prison-costs-summary-10-11.pdf/

Roughly £28k per prisoner per year, £3.15 Billion last year providing 3 meals, Playstations, Sky TV etc

The specific question is whether the death penalty should be reintroduced. You suggest it would save money. I countered with facts that it does indeed cost many times more to execute someone.

i see a gap in the market! a execution service that's value for money!

Offline Mk5 GTian

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Re: Should they bring back hanging
« Reply #49 on: May 15, 2012, 12:32:20 pm »

Did someone say they get Sky? Unbelievable.  :confused:

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Offline andrewparker

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Re: Should they bring back hanging
« Reply #50 on: May 15, 2012, 12:33:38 pm »
.
I don't agree at all with the taxpayer justification - It's not a financial issue.

Exactly, money shouldn't get in the way of making decisions about someones sentence.

We sentence you to death... so Tamiyoman can save a few pence in tax.

Offline Tamiyoman

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Re: Should they bring back hanging
« Reply #51 on: May 15, 2012, 12:34:50 pm »
By the way, in saying that I don't mean to condone retribution. I think it's morally flawed, and in reality is just a sanitised form of ugly, brutal vengeance. It's completely inappropriate for modern, civilised society.

I completely agree with you there Andrew. In a modern society, there is no place for us to take the lives of others. I do however believe that there are a certain group of criminals that deserve no chance of rehabilitation back into society. The kind of people who rape, calculated murderers, pedophiles etc should be put in jail in awful conditions and see out there days in there. A life sentence to mean a life sentence. The only time they come out of that jail is in a Co-op standard ply box!

I would hate to see our justice system come close to somewhere like the US'. It clearly doesn't work.

But why should "we" the taxpayers fund their prison lifestyles?, unless they are working hard labour and paying for their own keep and making a profit that the gov can use to reduce national debt (or make the roads better  :happy2:) then they shold be disposed of as they bring nothing to society apart from crime and grief for others.

Yet again, a misinformed opinion. For a start it is ridiculous to think of justice in financial terms, but more importantly the legal costs of Capital Punishment are many, many times more than that of lifetime imprisonment without parole. I think the average cost in the US is $23m for each person condemned to death.

Misinformed?, dont think so!, the average prisoner costs more to "Care for in prison" than the average person earns each year!!, so not only are these people NOT contributing to society they are actually costing taxpayers money, its a double whammy!!.

Take a peek at the UK Justice accounts for breakdowns.

http://www.justice.gov.uk/downloads/statistics/hmps/prison-costs-summary-10-11.pdf/

Roughly £28k per prisoner per year, £3.15 Billion last year providing 3 meals, Playstations, Sky TV etc

The specific question is whether the death penalty should be reintroduced. You suggest it would save money. I countered with facts that it does indeed cost many times more to execute someone.

I cant see how it costs more to shoot someone than to house them for a 25-30 year stretch, after all a bullet only costs 60p.

Perhaps they should privatise the prisons and the "Guests" earn their keep  :signLOL:
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Offline andrewparker

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Re: Should they bring back hanging
« Reply #52 on: May 15, 2012, 12:42:12 pm »
Legal costs. They don't just give the decision to some knobhead drinking John Smiths down his local.

Offline Tamiyoman

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Re: Should they bring back hanging
« Reply #53 on: May 15, 2012, 12:44:11 pm »
.
I don't agree at all with the taxpayer justification - It's not a financial issue.

Exactly, money shouldn't get in the way of making decisions about someones sentence.

We sentence you to death... so Tamiyoman can save a few pence in tax.

Wrong again Andrew, rather than make this about me (your habit), I am talking about everyone in the country "We sentence you to death as your are a murderer/paedo and bring nothing but misery and a financial burden to society" and I would rather the gov use the money to pay off national debt and better the countries chances of getting out of a recession, I am happy to pay my taxes and a few pence/pounds to me wont make any difference, £3.15 billion per year would make a difference tho. If only inmates could earn their keep.

As students these days pay for higher education and leave Uni with large debts which they have to repay, why should a prisoner not pay for his "Re-habilitation", whether he earns his keep working in prison or whether he leaves prison with a debt to repay (like students).


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Offline Tamiyoman

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Re: Should they bring back hanging
« Reply #54 on: May 15, 2012, 12:47:21 pm »
Legal costs. They don't just give the decision to some knobhead drinking John Smiths down his local.

Seems there is another gap in the market there too, anyone wanna legal job arranging the shooting of a convicted murderer, £14.5 million a head, sure there will be a few applicants for that one  :signLOL:
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Offline andrewparker

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Re: Should they bring back hanging
« Reply #55 on: May 15, 2012, 12:55:59 pm »
I'm not adverse to inmates "earning their keep", but I'll say it again, it costs more to execute someone than it does to keep them in prison for life. The US system is a prime example.

Offline andrewparker

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Re: Should they bring back hanging
« Reply #56 on: May 15, 2012, 01:02:10 pm »
I quite like the idea in some Muslim countries where the victims/victims families are included in handing down the punishments.

Jesus Christ, how did I miss that. Are you actually serious?

Offline andrewparker

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Re: Should they bring back hanging
« Reply #57 on: May 15, 2012, 01:06:23 pm »

Wrong again Andrew, rather than make this about me (your habit)...


By the way, I made it about you because up until this point you are the only one who has attempted to justify the death penalty based on the finances of the country. Can't you see how ridiculous that is?

Offline stealthwolf

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Re: Should they bring back hanging
« Reply #58 on: May 15, 2012, 01:17:13 pm »
Now i know people got hanged that were innocent but with todays dna tests it is 99.9% proof
No it isn't and what about the 0.1%? What if you were suspected to be the murderer, were completely innocent but the evidence was stacked against you? How would you feel?

If you kill someone with intent you should have your life taken away from you. (IMVHO)
Then you're no better than the murderer.

We (society) and marketing companies have created an instant gratification society where the acquisition of material goods is seen as been the big thing.  Time we all learned respect for ourselves and others and that you have to be happy from within and taking away what someone else has should not be tolerate.  Lets remember that for the most part there are very few people who are hunger or cold in this country, so why behave in this way.
+1. Everyone must have the latest game, the latest TV etc. We value belongings above and beyond human life now. This needs to change.

Being honest I don't like anyone taking someones life it's such a precious thing to lose
+1. Completely agree with this. It is such a drastic thing to do.

This country is far too much of a soft touch!!
Agree in some respects - when software piracy and hacking carry a heavier penalty than raping someone, something has gone wrong.

You have to be pretty sure that you are murdering the right person, not 99.% sure but 100% sure, not even DNA testing can give you that assurance
Which is why I disagree with the death penalty.

I'd bring in hard labour in prisons. Strip all their TV's, playstations, Facebook access, and comfortable cells and make the cells like those in America with just an uncomfortable bed with one open wall of bars only.
completely agree with this. I know patients who committed crimes so they could go back inside where they had a place to stay, food, they'd be seen by a doctor, and they'd have comfort. Prison needs to be hell - the kind of place you never want to go to in the first place.

Life imprisonment without parole causes much more suffering to the offender than a painless death after a short period of imprisonment.
+1. I cannot recall who stated it but give them meaningless tasks eg moving rocks from one place to another and back. It saps meaning out of their existance but they will still exist and suffer.

Roughly £28k per prisoner per year, £3.15 Billion last year providing 3 meals, Playstations, Sky TV etc
The cost of this needs to be broken down and analysed. I never had a games console as a kid so no idea why everyone in prison seems to have access to one. Ditto with sky TV.

I do however think there is no harm in giving prisoners who are in for non violent offences the oppertunity to develop new, practical skills. They could be put to use to improve the infrastructure of the country no problem. But, imagine the haters you'd get if they implemented that!!
Big fan of this too - prisons can rehabilitate some (but not everybody). There are some who commit crimes to obtain money for food/drugs etc. Prison should be a place where people are detoxified and not where they can start/continue their drug habit.


While I am on my soapbox, they should drastically reform the state benefits so its actually better for the "Scroungers" to work than sit at home collecting benefits because they had the forsight to have a few kids and let the government pay for it.  :popcornsoda:
+1. If you're on benefits, it should just about allow you to live - ie water/heating/shelter/clothes/food. Anything else is a luxury and if you want it, you should have to pay for it.

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Offline Tamiyoman

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Re: Should they bring back hanging
« Reply #59 on: May 15, 2012, 01:46:28 pm »

Wrong again Andrew, rather than make this about me (your habit)...


By the way, I made it about you because up until this point you are the only one who has attempted to justify the death penalty based on the finances of the country. Can't you see how ridiculous that is?

I was not basing it purely on the finances of the country, merely pointing out that It would be good for criminals to actually pay for their own keep
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