Should they bring back hanging

[andrewparker]

Wrong again Andrew, rather than make this about me (your habit)...

By the way, I made it about you because up until this point you are the only one who has attempted to justify the death penalty based on the finances of the country. Can't you see how ridiculous that is?

I was not basing it purely on the finances of the country, merely pointing out that It would be good for criminals to actually pay for their own keep

In which case I wholeheartedly agree. We are straying from the original question though.

[sub39h]

i think that we should put criminals to work like in the USA. that's why they have things so cheap over there - prisoners aren't entitled to minimum wage. if we had manufacturing done by prisoners they'd be paying for their stay in prison, our exports would soar and we'd be better off as a society

i think a similar thing should be done to people on the dole - 6 months to find a job and if you don't you are put on a work team helping to build roads/schools/hospitals etc and only then do you get your pay out.

in regards to the death penalty, well i think that murderes/paedophiles/rapists if there was irrefutible evidence that they committed the crime (by which i mean verified CCTV footage that shows the act) only then do i think the death penalty is justified. if there's a risk that we get it wrong even once then it shouldn't be allowed to happen. same thing with corporal punishment.

someone mentioned earlier removal of body parts but you're forgetting that that would have to be done by a doctor, and doctors take an oath to "first do no harm". it would also be expensive to get a surgeon to do that (i.e. more burden on the taxpayer) + theatre space/time/staff/equipment. even if there was no ethical concern, and do you think a prisoner would make it easy to be anaesthetised if he knew that's what he was going in for? you do need some level of cooperation on the part of the "patient"

[stealthwolf]

i think that we should put criminals to work like in the USA. that's why they have things so cheap over there - prisoners aren't entitled to minimum wage. if we had manufacturing done by prisoners they'd be paying for their stay in prison, our exports would soar and we'd be better off as a society

Or you'd have more unemployment as fewer people would be needed to work on building sites etc. You need to get them to do the kind of work no one else wants to do for money.

[sub39h]

i think that we should put criminals to work like in the USA. that's why they have things so cheap over there - prisoners aren't entitled to minimum wage. if we had manufacturing done by prisoners they'd be paying for their stay in prison, our exports would soar and we'd be better off as a society

Or you'd have more unemployment as fewer people would be needed to work on building sites etc. You need to get them to do the kind of work no one else wants to do for money.

i was referring more to mindless tasks - they make number plates and things, basic manual labour. point is whatever they do they should be paying for their stay in prison.

[Tamiyoman]

i think that we should put criminals to work like in the USA. that's why they have things so cheap over there - prisoners aren't entitled to minimum wage. if we had manufacturing done by prisoners they'd be paying for their stay in prison, our exports would soar and we'd be better off as a society

Or you'd have more unemployment as fewer people would be needed to work on building sites etc. You need to get them to do the kind of work no one else wants to do for money.

i was referring more to mindless tasks - they make number plates and things, basic manual labour. point is whatever they do they should be paying for their stay in prison.

Number plates, laundry, basic machine stamping of metal parts, anything that involves pressing a button removing something and replacing it, something that anyone could do.

Clothing to office furniture to solar panels to military electronics (Even some parts of Patriot Missiles are made by lags in USA).

In USA they use prisoners as labour and they get paid 17p per hour, the rest goes to pay for their housing and a nice profit for the business that "Owns" these prisoners. A prisoner serving a 25 year sentence will be paid approx £10k throughout that time giving him some money to get himself back on his feet and not rely on the state!.

IBM, Boeing, Motorola, Microsoft, AT&T, Wireless, Texas Instrument, Dell, Compaq, Honeywell, Hewlett-Packard, Nortel, Lucent Technologies, 3Com, Intel, Northern Telecom, TWA, Nordstrom's, Revlon, Macy's, Pierre Cardin, Target Stores are all companies who utilize prison labour in their manufacturing.

[R32UK]

should they bring back hanging?

in short no. i could think of may other ways of punishing people that have caused suffering to others.

will this be done? no

because somewhere along the lines someone makes a whole heap of cash everytime someone is sent down. money should be spent on improving the justice system and policing.

convicted criminals should be made to live a  self sufficient lifestyle with as little help from the state as possible. provide them with the tools and guidance..... but if they dont get up and do something then they go hungry. simple

[RedRobin]

but if they dont get up and do something then they go hungry. simple

....I agree with most of your post but getting up and thieving etc so not to go hungry is what got some of them in prison in the first place.

[Mk5 GTian]

but if they dont get up and do something then they go hungry. simple

....I agree with most of your post but getting up and thieving etc so not to go hungry is what got some of them in prison in the first place.

I agree this is the case for some Robin, but getting up and thieving to pay for the next crack rock is what got most of them in prison in the first place. We have a terrible drugs problem in this country, which is fuelling a massive crime epidemic. The government's answer? Slash funding for primary and secondary drug and alcohol addiction treatment programmes. 

[sub39h]

the thing that annoys me about drug addiction is that it's totally unncessary

vials of heroin (used in medical practice) cost the NHS pennies each. i'm sure the cost of an overdose or HIV infection from shared needles or the cost of crime used to fund drug habits, vagrancy, police time and resources tracking users and dealers, anti smuggling and all the rest of it cost BILLIONS each year

why not just give the junkies heroin in a clean environment? instantly lower crime due to no need for drug dealers/smugglers. instantly lower rates of blood borne diseases and accidental overdoses. most of the long term health damage from heroin/cocaine use is due to the impurities it's cut with anyway so even those would go down.

it makes absolutely NO sense not to open injection centres with NHS funds.

[Mk5 GTian]

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I agree. If you outlaw something, you hand it over to the criminal marketplace.

It's pure stupidity to continue with current policy in the knowledge of the damage it causes to society. They won't back down due to principles, yet they continue to make billions from drugs which are far more dangerous to our health, purely because they have been socially constructed as acceptable habits.

The cost to the health service of alcohol and cigarette addiction runs into many billions, let alone the cost to the economy in terms of lost output and crime.

[sub39h]

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I agree. If you outlaw something, you hand it over to the criminal marketplace.

It's pure stupidity to continue with current policy in the knowledge of the damage it causes to society. They won't back down due to principles, yet they continue to make billions from drugs which are far more dangerous to our health, purely because they have been socially constructed as acceptable habits.

The cost to the health service of alcohol and cigarette addiction runs into many billions, let alone the cost to the economy in terms of lost output and crime.

need to correct you on this. cigarettes raise £10bn in revenue for the NHS but only burden it by £5bn

[Mk5 GTian]

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But the £5 billion...... "does not include indirect costs, such as lost productivity and informal care, the costs of treating disease caused by passive smoking, or the full range of conditions associated with smoking". 

[RedRobin]

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I agree. If you outlaw something, you hand it over to the criminal marketplace.

It's pure stupidity to continue with current policy in the knowledge of the damage it causes to society. They won't back down due to principles, yet they continue to make billions from drugs which are far more dangerous to our health, purely because they have been socially constructed as acceptable habits.

The cost to the health service of alcohol and cigarette addiction runs into many billions, let alone the cost to the economy in terms of lost output and crime.

need to correct you on this. cigarettes raise £10bn in revenue for the NHS but only burden it by £5bn

....And do you happen to have the stats on what alcohol raises and burdens for the NHS?

[a bit off the hanging subject, but such are the meanderings of random topics and interesting discussions]

[R32UK]

but if they dont get up and do something then they go hungry. simple

....I agree with most of your post but getting up and thieving etc so not to go hungry is what got some of them in prison in the first place.

I meant within the prison walls 

many will take the initiative and take on a small job inside. others with just be happy playing pool and playstation

[MC71]

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I agree. If you outlaw something, you hand it over to the criminal marketplace.

It's pure stupidity to continue with current policy in the knowledge of the damage it causes to society. They won't back down due to principles, yet they continue to make billions from drugs which are far more dangerous to our health, purely because they have been socially constructed as acceptable habits.

The cost to the health service of alcohol and cigarette addiction runs into many billions, let alone the cost to the
economy in terms of lost output and crime.

need to correct you on this. cigarettes raise £10bn in revenue for the NHS but only burden it by £5bn

....And do you happen to have the stats on what alcohol raises and burdens for the NHS?

[a bit off the hanging subject, but such are the meanderings of random topics and interesting discussions]

Alcohol duty brings in about £15 billion a year and a quick search suggests it cost about £3 billion for the NHS. As I always suspected, it's good to drink!!