Opinions: GT TSI 1.4 170 vs. GTI 2.0 TFSI

[omeydz]

Hi.

Im still a relative newbie to this forum but a VW loyalist since my car history began.

Anyway Iv got a 57 plate 1.4 S petrol with the measly 80bhp. Got it when I was 19 so its insurance friendly.

The years have rolled by and 23k miles later I want to level up.

Still getting used to the MK6 look but it may grow on me. In the meantime im interested in mk5s.

I know the 2.0 TFSI is a fav on here but wanted to know how it compares all round to the TSI 170 GT supercharged turbo and the R32 (if i can survive the many visits to the fuel pumps!)

The 1.4 170 is suspiciously cheaper than the others by a long shot even if they are well spec'd and low miles so why? Iv driven R32s and the 2.0 TFSI in the Golf, Scirocco and Eos. Cant really beat the R32 on exhaust note im sure with out aftermarket tinkering!

Im decided I want a DSG over manual (Iv been a stick shifter all my life and its time for a change. Driven DSGs and theyr brill to me :)  )

Opinions, views and all things GT 170 TSI , 2.0 TFSI and 3.2 v6 welcome here.

Not yet keen on the Diesels yet(no offence!)

Cheers !

[Mk5 GTian]

Can we leave the R32 out of this please? 

The search engine will show up the many, many 'R32 or GTi?" threads.

[omeydz]

Ok cool.

Makes sense to me coming to think of it.

Whats your thoughts MK5 GTIan?

[dmac1969]

Ive driven the twincharged 1.4 in 160PS form (In the 2012 Beetle) and was really glad to get back into my GTI , power wise. I know its only 30 odd BHP but you really feel it , if you can afford to run one , I would go for a GTI (or even better an Ed30)

[omeydz]

Hmm...

Granted the TSI is just a 1.4 its better on fuel unless hoofed about constantly.

What about the power delivery. (presume the supercharger does the lower revs till the turbo kicks in). TFSI does have noticable lag but when in the range does pull sweetly :)

How about the DSG when paired with these engines?

Many rumours about being jittery and sluggish while parking and city driving? true or not?

[Mk5 GTian]

Ok cool.

Makes sense to me coming to think of it.

Whats your thoughts MK5 GTIan?

I drove a 1.4 TSI my mate had as a loan car, and I found it ran out of puff just past the mid-range. Decent economy though, but not a patch on the GTi. The GTi is a great drivers car. Bit of a no brainer for me, but then look at what I drive, I'm hardly gonna be impartial! 

[omeydz]

Lol i was well aware that the majority here own the GTI on mk5golfgti forum haha!

But I do value the opinions a lot :)

Coming to think of it I have briefly driven a 1.4 TSI 140 which is dually charged that I was fitting cruise control to and it did have a nice whistle and did shift from lower revs.

Im not really one to tinker with the engine/trans or major mechanicals as I specialise in the techy stuff so if anything happens on performance side of things for me it would just be a remap of the engine.

I am well aware the GT TDI 140s and 170 map really well and get good increases in BHP figres but also the torque shreds through the driven tyres like no tomorrow!

My driving style (considering I have only 80 german FSI stallions under my bonnet) is not exactly exuberant as I dont get anywhere quick even if I try. So lower down power may be better and at lower speeds? I dont look to race or max my cars in case anyones got that question in mind.

I know good mods are out there for the GTI esp the k04 turbo setups.

Whats the 170 TSI like for power mods out of interest? Id understand if not many people have done power mods to 170TSIs here as most of you are on the 2.0TFSI!

[malaroo978]

Hi matey, I've got the 170 tsi and had the 140 in the past too.

Unfortunately never driven a 2.0tsi though, so can only give you my side!

I think it comes down to how much you drive and what economy you would accept? Along with how much you enjoy driving. If fuel is no concern (you mentioned an r32!) then I'd strongly sway towards the 2.0TSI as its a less complex higher output engine to begin, plus being a GTI has a couple of nice features over the gt.

I went for the tsi because its a nice mix of power and economy, I got upto 50mpg on a motorway run with the 140ps remapped. It was also producing 197bhp (they can be mapped upto 210ish depending on rollers). The extra power makes all the difference, transformed the car.

I didn't get a diesel because of the dpf and I think I'll wait until I can afford a CR for refined diesel driving! But if you like the pd units they are pretty amazing, good mpg and stupid amounts of torque!

If you want to save some money find a 140/170 tsi (same engine different software) to the spec you want it with the money saved. The 1.4 tsi is easily fast enough for every day driving with a remap.

I've averaged over 4000 miles 36mpg with it being a mix of motorway and short commutes. On my last tank mostly motorway doing 85-90 I got 39mpg over the tank (calculated).

With regards to upgrades, realistically a turbo back exhaust, intake, bigger intercooler, and a remap. You'd be looking at 250 absolute max with these. You could go further and get a hybrid/k04 turbo but not huge increases, maybe 280bhp (I don't know the limits of the internals).

With the GTI you can read about it on here and get an easy 330bhp with a k04 (and other bits but best to search).

All comes down to how much power you want and what your budget is.

Personally I'll be buying a diesel next time when hopefully the CR unit has come down. But if I was buying now I'd still buy the 1.4 tsi and remap it (like Im going to!) And enjoy 200ish bhp and economy benefits!

Any particular questions about the 1.4 tsi let me know :)

[Kregiel]

I drive both 1.4 tsi 170 bhp dsg and gti on regular basis. Initially I had 1.4 tsi which I remapped to 200 ish bhp but due to turbo issues as it was still under warranty the car was put to standard and left to my missus to enjoy while I got gti. Once remapped 1.4 tsi is fairly comparable to standard gti performance wise. Based on my ownership due to engine complexity for tsi I found it quite unreliable. I had the water pump replaced under warranty at 35 k miles. Perhaps that's why VAG detuned the enigne slighhtly to 160 bhp instead of 170 bhp later on. The reliabilty issue seems to occur reading on various forums. You can see plenty tsi 170 bhp with low mileage for sale. On the plus sides 1.4 when driven easily is slightly more economical then GTI but if pushed hard they are very similar with this regard.
1.4tsi (GT model I have) is on par handling and suspension wise with standard gti and I find engine is slightly more revvy.
In summary if your concern is fuel go for gti as the savngs with 1.4 would be minor. Also gti is more reliable due to what I said based on my expericenc

Paul

[omeydz]

Thanks malaroo and kregiel!

I have been aware of the engine issues on the 170 tsi. Diverter valves and turbo boost issues seem to be very common too.

As I said Im not one to make a big racing beast from my car, so max I would do is exhuast, remap and intake probably. The rest I am savvy with like electrics, cosmetics and painting etc :)

The 2.0TFSI is turbo only so suffers the lag.

Does the 1.4 170 TSI skip round this issue well with the supercharger pulling through the lower revs and a "seamless" transition to the turbo for the mid/higher revs?

Again im one for driving on the road and not so much track so if the 170 TSI is good at shifting at both low and high revs where GTI is only better at higher revs then Im swaying to the 170 TSI.

[Kregiel]

I haven't noticed any lag on standard gti as compared to TSI. There is noticeable lag in GTI with K04 but comparing standard gti to TSI they seem pretty similar in mid range peformance. Again these are just my feeling not based on any data logging. Also the transition from charger and turbo is completely seemless on tsi

Best try both and see for yourself

Paul

[omeydz]

Iv driven plenty of 2.0 TFSI in the GTI, scirocco and Eos which are standard and ECU mapped to 240-250bhp.

Driven the 140 TSI but not the 170 TSI. So I think I need to try do that!

Also like the boost gauge in the cluster too!

Though at the expense of temperature gauge.. But nothing that an MFD+ addon like AutoPOLAR-FIS cant fix if its got a highline!

DSGs affected much by power remaps in their performance and longevity?

Not really interested in mapping the DSG software for transmission itself although this seems a relatively new tune up..

[malaroo978]

As far as I'm aware the reason for the supercharger in the 1.4 is because of the smaller capacity the turbo takes linger to spool. So there would be some lag without it. In the 2.0tsi the larger capacity negates the noticed lag (same turbo in the 1.4 and 2.0) so no need for a supercharger. The biggest problem with the supercharger is that when engaged it uses so much more fuel, so town driving tends to use a lot. The biggest benefit economy wise of the 1.4 is motorway driving, it can achieve quite high depending how you drive. Obviously no diesel killer but a good balance.

I'd so much rather have a temp gauge than my boost! It's cool at first but a temp gauge is more useful.

The 6 speed dsg in the mkv will cope fine with any remaps, they put the 7 speed dsg in the mkvi and its torque limit is much lower but has economy benefits

Best to drive both :) I would say if you're after a more solid engine and less things to go wrong then the 2.0tsi does win in this department