Cloned plates

[Tamiyoman]

i'm gonna double check this with a couple of lawyer friends of mine. it has always been my understanding that the police have to have reasonable grounds to believe you've broken the law before you're obliged to give them your details if you were just walking down the street or, as Horatio was, in his place of work minding his own business.

obviously if you're behind the wheel of a car and they want to verify you have a driving license/you're insured etc. that's different.

....The Police are unlikely to waste time challenging you for anything unless they are given reason to suspect you may have broken the law in some way. So if they go as far as stopping you, you are consequently under suspicion and therefore obliged to cooperate and give details if asked.

If you are innocent and, importantly, don't give them attitude you will come to no harm - Why should you?

Again, using Horatio's example - he was demanded for his details after they'd ascertained he was lawfully going about his business (or so his wordin implies). Giving your details is the easy option, and the option i'd be likely to take - BUT it is your right to refuse

It is not your right to refuse. They are investigating a crime and need to investigate it. An officer would need to know the persons name in the building to confirm that they are entitled to be on the premises and hence has the necessary requirement .

Horatio's story makes it quite clear that no crime was being committed. like i said, i've asked a couple of lawyers about this and they're looking into the legalities of it because i'm not happy just taking your word for it, irrespective of what you do for a living. i've nothing further to add.

One of my mates is a copper (mentioned him before and the stuff they get away with  ), he said they need to have grounds or suspicion to request your details, your entirely within your rights to refuse to provide details if you have done nothing wrong, he also added (a caveat) and said it may mean a trip to police station where they will happily enjoy wasting your time due to your refusal to provide details. 

[RedRobin]

Horatio's story makes it quite clear that no crime was being committed. like i said, i've asked a couple of lawyers about this and they're looking into the legalities of it because i'm not happy just taking your word for it, irrespective of what you do for a living. i've nothing further to add.

....In my opinion, Horatio's story lacks credibility and from other statements he has posted it is clear that he is prejudiced against the Police generally and so is highly unlikely to cooperate in allowing them to do their rightful job of investigation so that information might be later presented before a court sat in judgement of the matter.

It makes no difference whether Horatio has admitted he has committed a crime or claims his innocence (that is something which is yet to be proved) - By refusing to give his details he in effect is interfering with the course of justice and delaying the job of rightful Police investigation.

Whether you are innocent or guilty it is nothing short of stubborn stupidity to give attitude to someone in authority who is challenging or merely questioning you.

[n13cah]

I agree with Robin, how could they have checked he was allowed to be there without getting his details from him.

[Horatio]

I maybe many things Robin but im not a lyer and neither myself or my family have ever been associated with criminals or criminal behaviour. Hope that clears everything up. With regards to Fridays encounter, I merely asked a question "why do i need to provide my details when quite clearly the cctv operator was mistaken?" He couldnt answer. His collegue sympathised with me. And that was that. I think a mod needs to lock this thread before more frivalous accusations are made.

[Tamiyoman]

Horatio's story makes it quite clear that no crime was being committed. like i said, i've asked a couple of lawyers about this and they're looking into the legalities of it because i'm not happy just taking your word for it, irrespective of what you do for a living. i've nothing further to add.

Whether you are innocent or guilty it is nothing short of stubborn stupidity to give attitude to someone in authority who is challenging or merely questioning you.

If I was out walking my dog and a copper asked for my details I would quite politely tell him thanks but no thanks and continue walking my dog, if your doing nothing wrong why should you be delayed/questioned by them?, I am not (personally) prejudiced against the police, its a tough job (well actually it's not according to my mate Phil, except for the paperwork and dealing with scrotes its (his words) a piece of pi55  ). If I was in my car driving along abiding by the law I would probably not get stopped but If I did what excuse would be given? "I don't like your face" "I am jealous of your car" "You were driving erratically" "You pulled away from the junction quickly" etc etc, I would be inclined to say you already have my details on ANPR or PNC. When you get Told in a stern voice to "Hand over your car Keys" you do think "Hang on a minute chap, pleasantries dont cost anything!", I have long since adapted the mimic reply, stern voice gets a stern reply, nicely worded sensible question (Not "Is this your car as you pull up on your own drive" gets a sensible and nice reply

We used to get hassled a lot when we were younger (17-21) mentioned previously until letter from solicitor stopped that nonsense, but having a couple of mates still in the force and 2 others now out of the force you do get to hear the other side of the big boys club  

I remember from those days there were 2 local coppers who were decent blokes, proper old school (Clip round the ear as a kid etc) and treated you as you had behaved, but then there were the other 6 who were complete tossers no matter if you had not done anything (I do not have a criminal record BTW and was a decent kid) they would just harass you to keep themselves busy  

For the majority it's a serious job done within the law but there are plenty in there who use it to their advantage (usually those who were bullied at school and now on a power trip), it is a shame that's what people remember.

[RedRobin]

I maybe many things Robin but im not a lyer and neither myself or my family have ever been associated with criminals or criminal behaviour. Hope that clears everything up. With regards to Fridays encounter, I merely asked a question "why do i need to provide my details when quite clearly the cctv operator was mistaken?" He couldnt answer. His collegue sympathised with me. And that was that. I think a mod needs to lock this thread before more frivalous accusations are made.

....You seem to have calmed down since your previous outbursts.

However, I suggest that in accordance with your previous statements, you are prejudiced against the Police and derive some enjoyment from interfering with the course of their enquiries.

I'm afraid that regardless of legal technicalities I can see no justification whatsoever for you or anyone else to refuse to give their details when asked by authority in such contexts.

[Horatio]

I maybe many things Robin but im not a lyer and neither myself or my family have ever been associated with criminals or criminal behaviour. Hope that clears everything up. With regards to Fridays encounter, I merely asked a question "why do i need to provide my details when quite clearly the cctv operator was mistaken?" He couldnt answer. His collegue sympathised with me. And that was that. I think a mod needs to lock this thread before more frivalous accusations are made.

....You seem to have calmed down since your previous outbursts.

However, I suggest that in accordance with your previous statements, you are prejudiced against the Police and derive some enjoyment from interfering with the course of their enquiries.

I'm afraid that regardless of legal technicalities I can see no justification whatsoever for you or anyone else to refuse to give their details when asked by authority in such contexts.

Well, I dont know what else to say but...LOL

[Dp_Ed30]

[/quote]

So apparently they have arrested you with no evidence of an offence. No officer would arrest you without a statement from the victim  , that is his permission. without it you would not be arrested after the event. A £50k Rolex and a £50k chain theft and they didn't arrest you when you were stopped in your car ? A bit far fetched i think . Good story though 
[/quote]

the officer who stopped me last night was not from the MET police, i was told today that they should have arested me.

They have a report from the "victim" but not a official statement, he was meant to come in at 2pm today but failed and have re apointed for sunday.

in terms of the assault, I went for my mobile to call for a solicitor, the officer then put his hands on me slamming me against the wall, the other then took my phone.

Proceedure has not been followed at all, another major cock up is the fact that any violent crime will result in a instant review on my FAC with all wepons being taken in to police custody untill the situation has been review, as i type now all 13 are locked up in my safe at my home.

second is the fact that 2 days have passed and no evidence has been colected ( this could have been cleared up by the cctv footage from the 9 cams around the scene of the crime.

i will be doing as much csi work as i can this week and collecting as much evidence as posible inc footage from the carpet shop car park that overlooks the main road.

[RedRobin]

I think a mod needs to lock this thread before more frivalous accusations are made.

....Why? We are only discussing and sharing our opinions. It's not personal if we strongly disagree about a subject - At least, it's not personal on my part. 

[sub39h]

ultimately RR my point is that if you've done nothing wrong you shouldn't have to justify yourself just because a police officer doesn't like you for whatever reason. just because they're in a position of power doesn't mean they can do what they like.

i agree that you catch more flies with honey than with vinegar, but in this case vinegar is a justified (though albeit irrational) response.

[E30Dom]

What's a Lyer?

[Horatio]

^ I see 0_o what you did there 

[Horatio]

I think a mod needs to lock this thread before more frivalous accusations are made.

....Why? We are only discussing and sharing our opinions. It's not personal if we strongly disagree about a subject - At least, it's not personal on my part. 

OK 

So, where do you think the policemans authority is derived from?

[RedRobin]

ultimately RR my point is that if you've done nothing wrong you shouldn't have to justify yourself just because a police officer doesn't like you for whatever reason. just because they're in a position of power doesn't mean they can do what they like.

....I agree wholeheartedly that the Police should never abuse their power and there are a number of structures in place to prevent that and to bring any abuses to account.

Regarding the person being challenged/questioned/investigated, all a Policeman (or Policewoman) is doing is trying to establish how there may have been any infringements of the laws he/she is charged to uphold and, importantly, to record the identities of all parties involved or, until established otherwise later, who may have been involved, even as just a witness.

Again, I see no justification whatsoever for anyone witholding their details and it is naturally almost guaranteed to promote a negative reaction if witheld - Quite rightly, in my opinion.

[E30Dom]

If you've got nothing to hide, why try...