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Author Topic: Troubleshooting a Boost Leak....  (Read 24532 times)

Offline RedRobin

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Troubleshooting a Boost Leak....
« on: November 18, 2008, 10:37:23 pm »
....

Going on JKM's Dyno-Dynamics rollers when my Revo Stage1 was installed, plotted smooth healthy curves with 236 bhp and just under 300 ft lbs. In late September, Revo HQ loaded Stage2 and we went out on the road and everything was fine and dandy - A subtle but strong linear power. Subsequently, in early October about 20 of us met up for a social rolling road session at JKM and I was very surprised to plot less than 230 bhp with Stage2.

My VW dealer had spotted earlier that my Milltek cat was deteriorating and so Milltek kindly replaced the whole downpipe and sportscat but a diagnostic session on JKM's dyno a few days afterwards still showed only 228 bhp. Keith at JKM thought it was likely to be a boost leak because of data logging the boost request levels.

So another session followed and Jim took the car apart as follows : -

- Spotted oil blow by leak on seals by Turbo Discharge to Intercooler. Inlet seals removed and cleaned and all ok in that area now.

- Forge DV removed and checked. Seals renewed anyway and no faults found.

- DV vacuum lines checked with vacuum gauge and all ok.

- PCV valve checked and all ok. PCV valve blank-off used for testing - No differences to performance/boost response.

- Air box removed and car run - No changes to performance/boost response.

As there are no apparent boost leaks at this stage JKM said they would like to mechanically inspect the turbocharger for any internal damage or potential cracks on wastegate housing etc. They were fairly confident it's the turbo but of course couldn't be 100% sure yet.

So, my options were : -

1) -  Inspect the turbo but have to hire a car while it's sent away to a specialist if no damage is obvious. This would have a cost and would also probably not be financially viable to repair. 

2) - Buy a new K03 turbo (about £650) with 2-year warranty. BUT....That warranty would be ineffective because VW would claim that my car is too modified by its remap and exhaust.

3) - Buy a hardly used K03 which has done less than 4,000 miles and which both JKM and Revo knew to be in top notch condition. It was taken off for a K04 conversion. Cost £400. Swop turbo's in the same day.

4) - Spend several thousand pounds (£3.5K) on the K04 conversion and end up with around 300 bhp but all the potential problems that could bring to a stock GTI engine internals (not Ed30).

So I decided to go for option #3 and I bet lots of you would say go for option #4 the K04 conversion!!

Meanwhile, I decided it wise to run around in stock map and it did feel rather dull by comparison, though of course it's not!

Initially it's easy to think that none of this would have happened if I hadn't modded my car, but as she's only down on the power she should be (should be closer to 260 bhp instead of the 236 bhp), without being modded and going on the rollers etc, I might not even suspect anything was wrong and the situation become worse as the heat contractions make the crack bigger.

Apart from the obvious benefit of the quasi-religious experience of driving a fast modified car, I am convinced that running a modded car responsibly encourages far better care and maintenance.







^ Showing the wastegate housing cast with the exhaust manifold. K03 turbo is silver.



^ Showing inside the wastegate housing.



^ The crack was found on the rim as shown by the yellow broken circle.
It isn't possible yet for me to reopen the port to photograph the failure without special tools.



^ The arrow shows the connecting rod which opens and closes the wastegate (on my 'new' turbo).

JKM removed and inspected my turbo&manifold (it's one assembly) and, as suspected, the casing around the 'Penny Valve' Wastegate has a small crack. When I was chatting with VW Racing about my problem, they said it was probably in the Wastegate area or Penny Valve as JKM had already exhaustively tested other possibilities.

My original turbo is a Rev C, whereas my 'new' one is Rev G but there's no obviously visible difference!



Instead of trying so hard to meet boost requests that we were seeing >90% effort in the data logs, we are now seeing as little as 65% and mostly in the 70's - So now there's plenty headroom (tolerance).

JKM also set my Revo to Boost 6 instead of 7. It'll run 7 fine but we decided 6 just as an extra margin of safety.

So initially she making just over 240 bhp with a very healthy torque curve but we need to let the whole ECU learn the new setup and settle before another dyno session.

The dyno has been invaluable as a tool for assessment and diagnosis and then checking everything afterwards. Jim did some road testing with the laptop as well.

JKM are a great team - Jim is the mechanical expert and Keith the electronics expert and they specialise in VAG cars.

The probable cause of the crack is heat - Turbo's are subjected to extremely high temperatures - And a weakness in the metal casing. At first it's easy to regret that it didn't happen while still under warranty but I doubt very much if VW would have accepted my issue with my other modifications being present. There have been cases of metal failure in the K03 turbo on standard 2.0T FSI engines, so it's not a problem exclusive to remapped engines.

It's great to have that extra power back!

So far, so very good - But I shall have another dyno run at JKM to double check all is well after everything is more settled.

:happy2:
« Last Edit: November 19, 2008, 11:49:40 am by RedRobin »


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Offline gazbutS3

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Re: Troubleshooting a Boost Leak....
« Reply #1 on: November 18, 2008, 10:52:54 pm »
nice 1 RR for taking the time and effort of putting your experience into words for everyones benefit, and glad your back up to speed :happy2:

Offline Greeners

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Re: Troubleshooting a Boost Leak....
« Reply #2 on: November 19, 2008, 11:11:25 am »
Nice work Robin  :happy2:

Hope I never have to read it through  :grin:

Offline T88OMM

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Re: Troubleshooting a Boost Leak....
« Reply #3 on: November 19, 2008, 11:42:20 am »
Great work Robin. It may come in very handy for someone that, hopefully not me  :happy2:
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Offline MAT ED30

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Re: Troubleshooting a Boost Leak....
« Reply #4 on: November 19, 2008, 04:57:26 pm »
maybe an s3 ic should help keep it cool and run more boost :smiley:

Mods yes but way too many to stick in this little box

Offline RedRobin

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Re: Troubleshooting a Boost Leak....
« Reply #5 on: November 19, 2008, 06:30:19 pm »
^^^^

I'm no longer convinced by the S3 intercooler being of significant help in my case. I know that there are plenty people here who would strongly disagree!

As the originator of this Troubleshooting-subject thread, I would rather it's discussed in a separate thread.


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Offline RedRobin

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Re: Troubleshooting a Boost Leak....
« Reply #6 on: November 21, 2008, 05:16:13 pm »
....

It may be helpful to know  that because my boost leak was relatively slight and because the ECU was compensating for the loss (hence high % requests shown in my data logging), the fault was hardly noticeable on my boost gauge. It only became slightly noticeable when I started looking at it extremely closely.

If you have a major boost leak/problem and obviously a major loss of power, then the gauge is extremely useful in identifying the power loss as boost related.




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Offline neg

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Re: Troubleshooting a Boost Leak....
« Reply #7 on: December 09, 2008, 12:39:12 am »
I missed this thread..somehow!

Anyway keep us informed when your next on the RR as I am interested to see what figures you get next time.  With the K03 the duty cycle is ok in the 90's but obviously in its previous form it still wasnt enough to produce the boost it required.

Would be interested to see RR figures with say Boost 8, Timing 5 or 6 (depending on fuel), Fuel 9.

Good right up though and sharing information is what its all about.  :happy2:

Offline RedRobin

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Re: Troubleshooting a Boost Leak....
« Reply #8 on: December 09, 2008, 12:56:15 am »
....

I'm currently running Boost 6 (was 7 before the leak problem), Timing 5 (exclusively run on V-Power), Fuel 9, on Revo2.

I'll be going on JKM's dyno in the new year to check how things have settled and to check that all is as it should be.


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Offline WhiteGTI

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Re: Troubleshooting a Boost Leak....
« Reply #9 on: December 09, 2008, 01:54:17 pm »
....

I'm currently running Boost 6 (was 7 before the leak problem), Timing 5 (exclusively run on V-Power), Fuel 9, on Revo2.

I'll be going on JKM's dyno in the new year to check how things have settled and to check that all is as it should be.

I'm Boost 6, Timing 5 (exclusively run on V-Power) and Fuel 8 on Revo2 ...if that helps anyone! Seems to be running ok, will be rolling roading it on 23 December to have a little look!
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Offline RedRobin

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Re: Troubleshooting a Boost Leak....
« Reply #10 on: December 09, 2008, 02:16:18 pm »
^^^^

Chris - Are you rolling roading at JKM on 23rd?


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Offline WhiteGTI

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Re: Troubleshooting a Boost Leak....
« Reply #11 on: December 09, 2008, 03:26:43 pm »
^^^^

Chris - Are you rolling roading at JKM on 23rd?

I am indeed Sir! Looking forward to seeing if she is running healthily!

Are you down that way on the 23rd also then?
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Offline RedRobin

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Re: Troubleshooting a Boost Leak....
« Reply #12 on: December 09, 2008, 05:18:34 pm »
^^^^

Well, I could be.....In fact I've just spoken to Kate and I'll be on the rollers just before you! You're not likely to cancel or postpone are you?

I thought it would be a good opportunity to see you, your car, and check my car's health all at the same time. 8)



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Offline WhiteGTI

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Re: Troubleshooting a Boost Leak....
« Reply #13 on: December 09, 2008, 05:23:40 pm »
^^^^

Well, I could be.....In fact I've just spoken to Kate and I'll be on the rollers just before you! You're not likely to cancel or postpone are you?

I thought it would be a good opportunity to see you, your car, and check my car's health all at the same time. 8)



Nope definitely will not cancel!!

What time are you getting there? I will try to come and see yours go on the rollers also! Im on the rollers at 11:30 IIRC..!

Looking forward to it!  :smiley: Yeah it will be an interesting comparison between the two cars won't it!! Hopefully they will both produce similar and healthy figures!  :smiley: :smiley:
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Offline RedRobin

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Re: Troubleshooting a Boost Leak....
« Reply #14 on: December 09, 2008, 05:34:09 pm »
^^^^

I'm booked on the rollers for 11:00 (Kate's suggestion) and you are for 11:30 because I asked for a time slot next to yours.

Your mods are very, very similar to mine and so it will be doubly interesting. Also, I haven't heard your APR zorst properly yet.

Nice One!! :happy2: 8) :happy2: :jumpmove:


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