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Author Topic: VW's Mk5 Decisions  (Read 7968 times)

Offline E30Dom

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Re: VW's Mk5 Decisions
« Reply #15 on: July 17, 2012, 03:15:55 pm »
Quote from: andrewparker on July 17, 2012, 02:56:23 pm
Quote from: E30Dom on July 17, 2012, 02:51:15 pm
Quote from: andrewparker on July 17, 2012, 02:50:37 pm
Quote from: E30Dom on July 17, 2012, 02:47:46 pm

The standard GTi brakes are shocking...


In what circumstances?

When you put your foot on the brake pedal...

If you're driving within the laws of this country then the brakes are perfectly ample.

It continually amazes me how people here think the GTI is some sort of hardcore performance car that needs massive brakes.

When you get to the stage of 300+bhp of which the ED30 is easily capable, then it needs better brakes as it can get to speeds quicker than a standard GTi, and I would prefer to be able to brake quicker if anything required me to do so...
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Offline Beddie

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Re: VW's Mk5 Decisions
« Reply #16 on: July 17, 2012, 03:29:43 pm »
Quote from: Tortaruga on July 17, 2012, 02:27:38 pm
Quote from: Beddie on July 17, 2012, 11:02:21 am
The decision will have been ultimately made by the VAG bean counters based on cost

But that's my point. Surely the bean counters would've wanted to just remap the ECU to 230hp. Much cheaper than doing what they did!

I'd have to disagree tbh, each engine built will have a unit cost to VW and I'd speculate that the difference in cost based on the sheer volume of each type of engine they produce means that it was more cost effective to drop in a k04 lump rather than have the time and cost involved in developing a bespoke 230 version of the 200 engine..
From the VAG point of view why go to the added cost of 'tuning' the k03 version and all the type approval testing for all the various customer markets around the globe when they had the 'right' engine being built in the thousands anyway?

Regarding the cost comparison of the 2 different engines, it's worth remembering that there are no extra parts in a k04 engine compared to a k03, just different ones..   :wink:
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Offline andrewparker

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Re: VW's Mk5 Decisions
« Reply #17 on: July 17, 2012, 03:29:51 pm »
Quote from: E30Dom on July 17, 2012, 03:15:55 pm
Quote from: andrewparker on July 17, 2012, 02:56:23 pm
Quote from: E30Dom on July 17, 2012, 02:51:15 pm
Quote from: andrewparker on July 17, 2012, 02:50:37 pm
Quote from: E30Dom on July 17, 2012, 02:47:46 pm

The standard GTi brakes are shocking...


In what circumstances?

When you put your foot on the brake pedal...

If you're driving within the laws of this country then the brakes are perfectly ample.

It continually amazes me how people here think the GTI is some sort of hardcore performance car that needs massive brakes.

When you get to the stage of 300+bhp of which the ED30 is easily capable, then it needs better brakes as it can get to speeds quicker than a standard GTi, and I would prefer to be able to brake quicker if anything required me to do so...

Ah, so we're talking about a tuned 300bhp Edition 30 now are we?! My mistake, I thought the OP was asking why it didn't have bigger brakes fresh from the factory :wink:

Either way, the point stands. An Edition 30 travelling at 70mph needs no more braking power to stop than a standard GTI travelling the same speed.
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Offline Tfsi_Mike

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Re: VW's Mk5 Decisions
« Reply #18 on: July 17, 2012, 03:31:33 pm »
 
Any car at any speed will benefit from being able to stop / slow down more efficiently
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Offline E30Dom

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Re: VW's Mk5 Decisions
« Reply #19 on: July 17, 2012, 03:43:03 pm »
Quote from: Tfsi_Mike on July 17, 2012, 03:31:33 pm

Any car at any speed will benefit from being able to stop / slow down more efficiently

^^^ my point exactly...

Why give a car more power Albeit 30bhp in the first place if it's not going to encourage a sportier drive... if you can get to a higher speed(within law abiding limits) by distance 'A', which at something pulls/jumps out in front of you, you will be traveling faster, and hence need to brake harder to stop by distance 'B'... which is why I feel it needs better brakes...

But anyway, I just feel they are weak compare to the R32... in terms of stopping from 70mph in either a gti or a gti edition 30.
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Offline andrewparker

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Re: VW's Mk5 Decisions
« Reply #20 on: July 17, 2012, 04:13:07 pm »
Quote from: E30Dom on July 17, 2012, 03:43:03 pm
Quote from: Tfsi_Mike on July 17, 2012, 03:31:33 pm

Any car at any speed will benefit from being able to stop / slow down more efficiently

Why give a car more power Albeit 30bhp...

Exactly. In real terms how much difference does that make within legal speeds. Not much I'd bet. 0.4 seconds to 60...
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Offline E30Dom

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Re: VW's Mk5 Decisions
« Reply #21 on: July 17, 2012, 04:17:04 pm »
Yeah but that could be the difference of say 5mph, which to equates to so many metres extra stopping distance and whether you hit/stop in time...

All imo of course... An obviously not enough to VW to worry or swallow extra cost of putting the R brakes on...
« Last Edit: July 17, 2012, 04:19:10 pm by E30Dom »
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Offline RedRobin

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Re: VW's Mk5 Decisions
« Reply #22 on: July 17, 2012, 04:27:46 pm »
Quote from: Tfsi_Mike on July 17, 2012, 03:31:33 pm

Any car at any speed will benefit from being able to stop / slow down more efficiently


....Exactly! Far better to have 'big' brakes and not need them very often than to need them and not have them!

It's not a matter of "hooning about" as SaintSteve says, nor "driving within the law" as Andrew says:

@ Steve:
Were we hooning on those B-roads when you said you nearly rear-ended me? - I thought we were just enjoying driving our cars on some B-road twisties. Plus I have been in convoy with you many times and you love to have fun safely as much as the rest of us.  :happy2:

@ Andrew (Parker):
Believe me, there are plenty of roads in my neck of the woods (and elsewhere) where you can drive fast and safely without breaking the law. Having a balanced and good braking power adds to the fun and is much safer.

It's well-known that standard VAG cars suffer from poor brake pedal feel. As said by others earlier, cars like the Golf are designed very generically - We are not seen as the same sort of customers/end-users who buy R8's and Porsches etc. Cost and profit is a major factor too.
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Offline RedRobin

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Re: VW's Mk5 Decisions
« Reply #23 on: July 17, 2012, 04:30:47 pm »
.
Just adding S3 rear brakes (to my AP Racing fronts) made a very noticeable difference - Braking is very evenly balanced and I'm constantly amazed at the braking power in wet or dry. Tyres play an important part of course.
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Re: VW's Mk5 Decisions
« Reply #24 on: July 17, 2012, 04:31:14 pm »
But people forget, the r32 brakes/S3 brakes are designed to work for a heavier Vehicle.

hence why the most common complaint that people say on the brake upgrade is Snatchy brakes.

sorry Andrew, almost ran out of thankyou's to give you  :signLOL:

Glad someone else sees my point too  :happy2:
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Offline Hedge

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Re: VW's Mk5 Decisions
« Reply #25 on: July 17, 2012, 04:34:30 pm »
 :indifferent:
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Offline RedRobin

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Re: VW's Mk5 Decisions
« Reply #26 on: July 17, 2012, 04:35:33 pm »
Quote from: Saintsteve on July 17, 2012, 04:31:14 pm

But people forget, the r32 brakes/S3 brakes are designed to work for a heavier Vehicle.

hence why the most common complaint that people say on the brake upgrade is Snatchy brakes.


....Agreed - The R32/S3 brakes are designed for a heavier car - That's partly why they are more effective than the GTI/Ed30 stock brakes.

Snatchiness is usually due to the brake kit design or its components - My AP Racing brakes have never ever been snatchy but then with a reputation like AP you wouldn't expect them to be.
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Offline Tfsi_Mike

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Re: VW's Mk5 Decisions
« Reply #27 on: July 17, 2012, 04:36:52 pm »

My Cupra weighs no more than an Edition 30 and has the same brakes as the S3 / R32 / R as standard
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Offline E30Dom

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Re: VW's Mk5 Decisions
« Reply #28 on: July 17, 2012, 04:40:55 pm »
A Fully laden Ed30 with 5 burly men and their luggage will weigh more than a R32 with it's driver... now who needs the bigger brakes stopping from 70mph?

Steve, glad you find the standard Gti brakes OK for your Edition 30 with Superchips Stage 2 map  :signLOL:
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Offline RedRobin

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Re: VW's Mk5 Decisions
« Reply #29 on: July 17, 2012, 04:42:41 pm »
Quote from: Tfsi_Mike on July 17, 2012, 04:36:52 pm

My Cupra weighs no more than an Edition 30 and has the same brakes as the S3 / R32 / R as standard


....To possibly better understand German Fritz's thinking, which car was launched first? - Your Cupra or the Ed30?
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