LEGAL HELP NEEDED

[patrickcullen87]

Looking for a little bit of advice, basically I got pulled for driving whilst on the phone (wasn't on the phone) so I took it to court, I attended the first court date to plead not guilty. They then set me 2 dates, one to confirm I was ready to go to trial and the other the trial date. My Question is, should I produce my evidence at the 1st date to stop it going to trial? Basically I have phone records showing that I wasn't on the phone, secondly the police have got the date wrong in ye summary of evidence and I have a tracker report showing I wasn't in the area I got pulled on that date and time?? Case seems pretty black and white to me so I am representing myself. Is thi a good idea? Should I produce my evidence just now or just wait till the trial date??
Thanks 

[dodds-gttdi]

You seem to have good evidence (including the bungling efforts of the police attempting to get the date right). This is just a typo/technicality though yeah? Be wary of the possibility of the judge brushing a simple mistakes like that aside. I presume you were looking at your phone when noticed by the police, but not actually using it (call/text) at the time. Don't answer that one online (just incase).  If so then the most the police should be able to do you for is using a device whilst driving (this includes sat-navs, mp3 players, electric shavers,etc).

I think you should put forward all the evidence you have at the first available opportunity. If the judge looks at it in your favour then he can stop it going any further.

Hope it all goes well for you.

p.s. All of the above is totally my own opinion. I'm in no way a legal expert 

[patrickcullen87]

I don't think the mistake is a typo to be honest...I will use an example here...say the offence happened on Sunday the 13th January they have wrote in the evidence the offence happened on Friday the 11th of January, it's a full statement it's not just a typo error??

[ConeKiller]

im sure the offence extends to holding/using your phone as well as making calls or sending texts, but with the proof you have along with the tracker and the incorrect date you do have a strong case!

[RedRobin]

Looking for a little bit of advice, basically I got pulled for driving whilst on the phone (wasn't on the phone) so I took it to court

....When you say you got "pulled" should we assume you mean you were pulled over and stopped at the roadside by Police? And this wasn't a case of receiving a notice of prosecution subsequently just on the strength of being spotted (allegably) using the phone?

If you were 'pulled', presumably you strongly (but politely) protested your innocence and that should be on record.

Either you were or you were not using your phone while driving. If you were not, then I would advise informing the court (via its clerk) by letter as soon as possible. The letter should be a full account and explanation pointing out that you believe there has been an error. A court will always be grateful that its time is not wasted.

However, if you were using your phone while driving, whether voice or txt, then I have no sympathy for you whatsoever and you should accept what's due.  

[patrickcullen87]

Looking for a little bit of advice, basically I got pulled for driving whilst on the phone (wasn't on the phone) so I took it to court

....When you say you got "pulled" should we assume you mean you were pulled over and stopped at the roadside by Police? And this wasn't a case of receiving a notice of prosecution subsequently just on the strength of being spotted (allegably) using the phone?

If you were 'pulled', presumably you strongly (but politely) protested your innocence and that should be on record.

Either you were or you were not using your phone while driving. If you were not, then I would advise informing the court (via its clerk) by letter as soon as possible. The letter should be a full account and explanation pointing out that you believe there has been an error. A court will always be grateful that its time is not wasted.

However, if you were using your phone while driving, whether voice or txt, then I have no sympathy for you whatsoever and you should accept what's due.  

Yes I was pulled over at the roadside by an undercover police car, I explained to the police officer that I was not using the phone nor was I holding the phone. They gave me a slip to fine me and give me 3 points which I did not pay, I then went to court and pleaded not guilty, got my intermediate deit and final trial date.
My intermediate date is tomorrow so I was wondering wether I should produce my evidence at this point or wait untill the final trial? I am 100% innocent so I am not accepting the points. I know mistakes can be made by the police and they have a hard job but I am not accepting 3 points for their error. If it was jut a fine then I would pay it just to get the case out the way as it is only money at the end of the day, but 3 points stay on my license which I do not need

[RedRobin]

^^^^
So, I guess that the Police were adamant that they (one? two?) had witnessed you using your phone. Any court is likely to believe the Police evidence over your protestation of innocence in such a case, I reckon. However, your phone records should counter that and support your case.

I would advise (but I'm not a lawyer) having all your evidence with you to present tomorrow (IF given that opportunity). At least inform the court tomorrow that you have it available but I expect it will be a quickie and just a formaility and the 'trial' hearing is where they will take more notice of it.

The underlying principle here is for you to be totally compliant and cooperative. Whether you like it or not, we all have to submit to the ways of a court and it never bodes well for us if we show anger or (of course) disrespect even if we feel it and feel justified.

What I'm finding difficult is that the Police seem to be so positive about your guilt. Were you merely dewaxing your ear? What exactly do they allege they witnessed?

Interesting..... Please keep us informed.

There are one or two legal bods on this forum who may post some advice or info.

[Tortaruga]

You either will or will not be given the opportunity to present your evidence at your first court date. It should be obvious, ie the judge will ask you if you have anything you wish to say in relation to what you are there for. So listen carefully! I'd guess you won't get the opportunity to plead at this date as it's only to confirm you're ready to go to trial, as you said. I'm not legally trained just to let you know.

I personally agree with what you're doing 100%. I would do the same in your situation. I'd be perfectly polite and courteous. I'd listen very carefully to the judge and answer thoughtfully and truthfully. If I did all that and lost I'd be upset but I'd have to take it on the chin-not worth going to jail after all. At least your conscience is clear, nobody can take that away from you.

[patrickcullen87]

^^^^
So, I guess that the Police were adamant that they (one? two?) had witnessed you using your phone. Any court is likely to believe the Police evidence over your protestation of innocence in such a case, I reckon. However, your phone records should counter that and support your case.

I would advise (but I'm not a lawyer) having all your evidence with you to present tomorrow (IF given that opportunity). At least inform the court tomorrow that you have it available but I expect it will be a quickie and just a formaility and the 'trial' hearing is where they will take more notice of it.

The underlying principle here is for you to be totally compliant and cooperative. Whether you like it or not, we all have to submit to the ways of a court and it never bodes well for us if we show anger or (of course) disrespect even if we feel it and feel justified.

What I'm finding difficult is that the Police seem to be so positive about your guilt. Were you merely dewaxing your ear? What do they allege they witnessed?

Interesting..... Please keep us informed.

There are one or two legal bods on this forum who may post some advice or info.

There were 2 officers present at the time. I was sitting at traffic lights and had my right elbow on the drivers window Leaning my head in my hand so it would like my hand was I my ear, I was singing along to Oasis on the radio lol so I can see how it looks like I would be on the phone, when i pulled away from the lights the officers drove past me in the opposite direction then done a U turn and pulled me over. So they surely could only of had a 2-3 second glance in my window. As said I have the phone records to prove I was not on the phone, erm though they state on the citation that they clearly seem me engaging in conversation

[patrickcullen87]

And also I have a Bluetooth device fitted in my van which I was pulled in so I have no reason to have the phone to my ear as it connects automatically!

[RedRobin]

There were 2 officers present at the time. I was sitting at traffic lights and had my right elbow on the drivers window Leaning my head in my hand so it would like my hand was I my ear, I was singing along to Oasis on the radio lol so I can see how it looks like I would be on the phone, when i pulled away from the lights the officers drove past me in the opposite direction then done a U turn and pulled me over. So they surely could only of had a 2-3 second glance in my window. As said I have the phone records to prove I was not on the phone, erm though they state on the citation that they clearly seem me engaging in conversation

....Aha! That explains the Police action and I expect they may have been told such reasons as yours before and taken it to be a clever cover-up even though, in your case, it apparently wasn't.

Although there is no law against it, it's not a great driving habit to be in charge of a vehicle with right elbow out and head in hand. If you were playing your music loud it won't have impressed the Police either. I must admit that I hate seeing drivers in my rear view mirrors who have their elbow out and head in hand even at traffic lights. On seeing your mouth moving I too would have assumed you were on a phone even if hands-free and consequently that you were distracted.

Be aware that the Police may add the charge of 'Driving without due care and attention' to their case against you.

I don't think that your account of events will hold anything in your favour but that the phone records you have will be strongly in your favour. If I was sitting on the bench I would ask to see phone records presented to support the case either way. [Sorry, I'm just a frustrated wannabe barrister!]

[RedRobin]

And also I have a Bluetooth device fitted in my van which I was pulled in so I have no reason to have the phone to my ear as it connects automatically!

....And, so far, such hands-free devices are not illegal. Personally, I don't think they are much better at not distracting someone from driving but where do you draw the line? Passengers not allowed to talk to drivers? The law is based on the principle of your physical control of your vehicle rather than your mental focus it would seem.

You should also tell the court (at the appropriate time) that you have a Bluetooth and therefore no need for a handheld phone to your ear.

You can understand why the Police feel justified in pulling you though can't you?

[patrickcullen87]

And also I have a Bluetooth device fitted in my van which I was pulled in so I have no reason to have the phone to my ear as it connects automatically!

....And, so far, such hands-free devices are not illegal. Personally, I don't think they are much better at not distracting someone from driving but where do you draw the line? Passengers not allowed to talk to drivers? The law is based on the principle of your physical control of your vehicle rather than your mental focus.

You should also tell the court (at the appropriate time) that you have a Bluetooth and therefore no need for a handheld phone to your ear.

You can understand why the Police feel justified in pulling you though can't you?

Yeah I don't have any objections to them pulling me over as I can put myself in their position and would have came to the same conclusion, I just hopes evidence is enough to convince the judge that I was indeed not on the phone. I would feel it a little unfair to receive points for something i haven't done!

[RedRobin]

.
Black and white material evidence such as phone records is exactly the sort of evidence which makes a court's job easier - I think that the case against you will be dismissed. But don't hold your breath for an apology for the waste of your time etc.

So, as others have also said in this thread, take all your evidence with you tomorrow just in case and Good Luck! 

[Rachael]

From reading all of this, I tthink you should be fine. I presume  it's a magistrates court your going to, when asked a question by the prosecution or defence always address the magistrates with the answer . ( hope I'm not teaching you to suck eggs and don't wanna sound patronising! )

As far as phone records go, this is pretty much concrete evidence, as the fine and statements will have the time on they stopped  you, however ifsstatement has wrong date that does show something about the officers .

And dfinetly bring the Bluetooth up, I'd find it hard to believe with the evidence you have of them finding you guilty. I know a few people that have represented  themselves and the magistrates haven't favoured  the officers.

Good luck