LEGAL HELP NEEDED

[patrickcullen87]

The problem I see with your phone records defence is that you could have been using anyones phone. You really need to seek legal advise CPS will use stated cases and now how to present evidence. I am a Police Officer myself and now how the system works. At a trial they will call both Officers as witnesses so it becomes 2 against 1. The small typo on the date doesnt matter. I have been guilty of that when doing paperwork at 3am and been tired. Happens to us all. If I was you I would seek legal advise and let a solicitor do your arguing for you. They know about case law and stated cases they can use to help defend you.

Did they take your phone number and check it by calling you at the time?

I suspect they might say 'how do we know you don't have another phone?'

Yes they asked me to provide my phone, to which i provided them with my work phone (black HTC) and my personal phone (white iphone) to which the officers were certain it was the black phone. So they took the phone number and called the phone. So they cant argue i was using a different phone i would presume?

As for taking legal advise i really dont want to go down that route as it is pretty costly, the way i see it is i have done nothing wrong so so if they cant judge wether i am innocent or not going by my evidence and all the circumstances eg bluetooth etc then there is something seriously wrong with our justice system,

[RedRobin]

The problem I see with your phone records defence is that you could have been using anyones phone. You really need to seek legal advise CPS will use stated cases and now how to present evidence. I am a Police Officer myself and now how the system works. At a trial they will call both Officers as witnesses so it becomes 2 against 1. The small typo on the date doesnt matter. I have been guilty of that when doing paperwork at 3am and been tired. Happens to us all. If I was you I would seek legal advise and let a solicitor do your arguing for you. They know about case law and stated cases they can use to help defend you.

Did they take your phone number and check it by calling you at the time?

I suspect they might say 'how do we know you don't have another phone?'

Yes they asked me to provide my phone, to which i provided them with my work phone (black HTC) and my personal phone (white iphone) to which the officers were certain it was the black phone. So they took the phone number and called the phone. So they cant argue i was using a different phone i would presume?

As for taking legal advise i really dont want to go down that route as it is pretty costly, the way i see it is i have done nothing wrong so so if they cant judge wether i am innocent or not going by my evidence and all the circumstances eg bluetooth etc then there is something seriously wrong with our justice system,

....You can usually get a first stage of legal advice free. You say you have done nothing wrong but others think differently. Obviously you maintain that you are innocent but others will be setting out to prove otherwise to the court and that is the way it should be so that a fair and balanced final judgement is hopefully arrived at. The logic of you having Bluetooth and therefore (in your eyes only) you didn't need to use any other phone begs the question why you carry so many phones while in the car anyway - It's not a get-out-of-jail card which proves your innocence beyond any reasonable doubt.

Sorry, but surely you can see how the Police officers were totally reasonable and justified in their eyes to challenge you and now a trial of all evidence has to be heard in court. It isn't enough for you to just plead your innocence, ALL the facts need to be heard and proven beyond reasonable doubt.

[sub39h]

The problem I see with your phone records defence is that you could have been using anyones phone. You really need to seek legal advise CPS will use stated cases and now how to present evidence. I am a Police Officer myself and now how the system works. At a trial they will call both Officers as witnesses so it becomes 2 against 1. The small typo on the date doesnt matter. I have been guilty of that when doing paperwork at 3am and been tired. Happens to us all. If I was you I would seek legal advise and let a solicitor do your arguing for you. They know about case law and stated cases they can use to help defend you.

Did they take your phone number and check it by calling you at the time?

I suspect they might say 'how do we know you don't have another phone?'

Yes they asked me to provide my phone, to which i provided them with my work phone (black HTC) and my personal phone (white iphone) to which the officers were certain it was the black phone. So they took the phone number and called the phone. So they cant argue i was using a different phone i would presume?

As for taking legal advise i really dont want to go down that route as it is pretty costly, the way i see it is i have done nothing wrong so so if they cant judge wether i am innocent or not going by my evidence and all the circumstances eg bluetooth etc then there is something seriously wrong with our justice system,

....You can usually get a first stage of legal advice free. You say you have done nothing wrong but others think differently. Obviously you maintain that you are innocent but others will be setting out to prove otherwise to the court and that is the way it should be so that a fair and balanced final judgement is hopefully arrived at. The logic of you having Bluetooth and therefore (in your eyes only) you didn't need to use any other phone begs the question why you carry so many phones while in the car anyway - It's not a get-out-of-jail card which proves your innocence beyond any reasonable doubt.

Sorry, but surely you can see how the Police officers were totally reasonable and justified in their eyes to challenge you and now a trial of all evidence has to be heard in court. It isn't enough for you to just plead your innocence, ALL the facts need to be heard and proven beyond reasonable doubt.

but the burden should be on the prosecution to prove that the OP is guilty beyond reasonable doubt. innocent until proven guilty, not guilty until proven innocent

[gazon69]

Just been reading through this, were the officers in question in uniform? I was told the other day by a d.c that an ununiformed officer aint even allowed to pull you.

[RedRobin]

Sorry, but surely you can see how the Police officers were totally reasonable and justified in their eyes to challenge you and now a trial of all evidence has to be heard in court. It isn't enough for you to just plead your innocence, ALL the facts need to be heard and proven beyond reasonable doubt.

but the burden should be on the prosecution to prove that the OP is guilty beyond reasonable doubt. innocent until proven guilty, not guilty until proven innocent

....Either I haven't made it clear or you misunderstand me. All the facts will be presented by both sides so that the court is able to decide what it sees as the truth beyond any reasonable doubt. The case is going to trial to test his innocence. The CPS is calling his innocence into question. If there was absolutely no question of it wouldn't the case already be dismissed?

Any accused person summoned to appear before a court can plead their innocence until the cows come home (and they frequently do so even when in truth they are guilty). As far as those prosecuting are concerned, the person brought to court isn't necessarily innocent and they set out to prove guilt as they see it. Going to court at all is often a risk but there are times when you need to stand by a principle or to defend your good name and reputation.

Sorry but I don't see what you, Sub, are saying about 'the burden', to be much different from what I am saying.

Irrespective of the actual truth, the court will decide what it believes is true and it will become a matter of record.

[garrardrj]

Red .... Not exactly true , the Prosecution put forward their case and it is down to them to prove their case . The defence have to pulls this apart in any way they believe the Judge/Magistrate/Jury may decide that the prosecution case is not proven , hence Not Guilty Verdict . Our forumer only has to throw doubt on what the prosecution say .

[RedRobin]

^^^^
So it starts off as a prosecution of someone who claims they are innocent (assuming they plead innocent and do not admit guilt to the charges). Hence they are supposed 'innocent' until proven to be guilty. Sorry, I thought that was what I was saying.

Surely the prosecution will in turn attempt to throw doubt on what the defence say?

Isn't it sensible to employ a solicitor/lawyer as a mouthpiece because they will be familiar with the ways of court and how to best defend against a prosecution? And then ask for their legal costs to be paid if found innocent?

[Top Cat]

The problem I see with your phone records defence is that you could have been using anyones phone. You really need to seek legal advise CPS will use stated cases and now how to present evidence. I am a Police Officer myself and now how the system works. At a trial they will call both Officers as witnesses so it becomes 2 against 1. The small typo on the date doesnt matter. I have been guilty of that when doing paperwork at 3am and been tired. Happens to us all. If I was you I would seek legal advise and let a solicitor do your arguing for you. They know about case law and stated cases they can use to help defend you.

Did they take your phone number and check it by calling you at the time?

I suspect they might say 'how do we know you don't have another phone?'

Yes they asked me to provide my phone, to which i provided them with my work phone (black HTC) and my personal phone (white iphone) to which the officers were certain it was the black phone. So they took the phone number and called the phone. So they cant argue i was using a different phone i would presume?

As for taking legal advise i really dont want to go down that route as it is pretty costly, the way i see it is i have done nothing wrong so so if they cant judge wether i am innocent or not going by my evidence and all the circumstances eg bluetooth etc then there is something seriously wrong with our justice system,

Sorry for being dumb. i don't know much about blue-tooth but doesn't it have to be one phone at a time connected to it. Ie if you had your home phone connected to it whilst driving then someone rang your works phone, is it not the case that your works phone wouldn't automatically connect.  I am only basing this on our Mazda, family car which can't have two phones connected to it at the same time. 

[Tamiyoman]

Regards your case I would seek legal advice from a professional as I suspect if the case for using your phone gets thrown out they might try the "Driving without care and attention", although the fact that you saw them and witnessed them turning round shows you were paying attention  .

While driving home a few weeks back I got pulled over (allegedly speeding) and my phone was on the centre console (It was actually on the armrest until the police officer stepped out in the road in front of me at which point it slipped off and landed on centre console), he asked me was I using the phone to which I replied "No, feel free to check the call history and duly handed him the phone", he never even checked it (I guess if he figured I handed it over I had nothing to hide), they did not "do" me for speeding,  he said I was doing 43 in a 30 (I was not actually speeding anyway  ) as it seemed he was only issuing me with a warning "To slow down" (Still was not speeding officer!), funny thing was tho they pulled me over and not the old guy in front of me who was blatantly speeding (and clearly pulling away from me at the time), I suspect that the radar gun speed they said they had that showed 43 was indeed the old guy in front of me  .

[Tamiyoman]

The problem I see with your phone records defence is that you could have been using anyones phone. You really need to seek legal advise CPS will use stated cases and now how to present evidence. I am a Police Officer myself and now how the system works. At a trial they will call both Officers as witnesses so it becomes 2 against 1. The small typo on the date doesnt matter. I have been guilty of that when doing paperwork at 3am and been tired. Happens to us all. If I was you I would seek legal advise and let a solicitor do your arguing for you. They know about case law and stated cases they can use to help defend you.

Did they take your phone number and check it by calling you at the time?

I suspect they might say 'how do we know you don't have another phone?'

Yes they asked me to provide my phone, to which i provided them with my work phone (black HTC) and my personal phone (white iphone) to which the officers were certain it was the black phone. So they took the phone number and called the phone. So they cant argue i was using a different phone i would presume?

As for taking legal advise i really dont want to go down that route as it is pretty costly, the way i see it is i have done nothing wrong so so if they cant judge wether i am innocent or not going by my evidence and all the circumstances eg bluetooth etc then there is something seriously wrong with our justice system,

Sorry for being dumb. i don't know much about blue-tooth but doesn't it have to be one phone at a time connected to it. Ie if you had your home phone connected to it whilst driving then someone rang your works phone, is it not the case that your works phone wouldn't automatically connect.  I am only basing this on our Mazda, family car which can't have two phones connected to it at the same time. 

Most BT devices these days allow connection of upto 5-10 different phones but only 1 at a time 

[RedRobin]

Regards your case I would seek legal advice from a professional as I suspect if the case for using your phone gets thrown out they might try the "Driving without care and attention", although the fact that you saw them and witnessed them turning round shows you were paying attention  .

....That's exactly what I suggested a few pages back. IIRC, the OP's posted description of what happened suggested that he had already driven away from the lights with head held in hand and elbow on window - If so, that's very sloppy IMO and certainly worthy of a 'Driving without care and attention' charge plus possibly a charge of 'Not being in full control of the vehicle'.

[patrickcullen87]

Well I went to court, was suppose to be seen at 10am but ended up having to wait untill 3pm because the 2 police officers did not show up! I am pretty sure if I was that late then the officers would not wait around that long for me!! Anyways after much thinking I decided I was going to represent myself as the case was pretty much black and white in my eyes! The police gave their version of what happened that day and I gave my version along with my evidence (which the fiscal was not happy to see) after both accounts of what happened the fiscal then said to the judge that the officers statements were to be taken as the truth and the judge should discard my evidence!! I found this to be pretty cheeky but why do I know. The judge then went away for 10 minutes and came back and made her decision that I was NOT GUILTY! Justice has been done! Although the fiscal and police officers did not seem to happy, and funnily enough there was an unmarked police car follow me pretty much all the way home, might just have been a coincidence? Happy is not the word 

[mrbubba]

Well I went to court, was suppose to be seen at 10am but ended up having to wait untill 3pm because the 2 police officers did not show up! I am pretty sure if I was that late then the officers would not wait around that long for me!! Anyways after much thinking I decided I was going to represent myself as the case was pretty much black and white in my eyes! The police gave their version of what happened that day and I gave my version along with my evidence (which the fiscal was not happy to see) after both accounts of what happened the fiscal then said to the judge that the officers statements were to be taken as the truth and the judge should discard my evidence!! I found this to be pretty cheeky but why do I know. The judge then went away for 10 minutes and came back and made her decision that I was NOT GUILTY! Justice has been done! Although the fiscal and police officers did not seem to happy, and funnily enough there was an unmarked police car follow me pretty much all the way home, might just have been a coincidence? Happy is not the word 

Every court case is set to start at 10am, so you could have 3 or 4 cases set to start at the same time. I've spent days sat waiting at court over the last 9 years, it's the way our justice system works and it's not going to change

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2

[JStav]

Congratulations, excellent news    You must be over the moon!

Justice has been served!

[RedRobin]

Justice has been served!

....Justice has a funny habit of only being served when it goes the way you wanted it to go.