LEGAL HELP NEEDED

[Tamiyoman]

Unmarked following you home on the same exact time you leave court after winning your case coincidence?  , sour grapes? 

and not judge the Police as acting in a way to cover up their mistake.

The police do cover up mistakes from time to time, highlighted quite recently..........Hillsborough.

[garrardrj]

Paranoia i would expect.... Does he realy think a person using a phone driving is a big deal ??

Also i don't think the OP stated he was in Scotland where the law is different . How different i do not know .

Anyone enlighten us on the court process differences , as i know the England process inside out .

As stated before if there is doubt then a NG is the only outcome , this would be the case in this matter .

[RedRobin]

The police do cover up mistakes from time to time, highlighted quite recently..........Hillsborough.

....Isn't that yet to be fully investigated and proved? (I don't buy the newspapers).

But let's assume for a moment that a Police cover up at Hillsborough is proved. Would you tar all Police with the same brush (or in your case, Clunge Sponge)?

[Horatio]

  Glad to see you got the result you deserved

I liked the comment of the witnessing officer "please disregard his evidence" 

[RedRobin]

I liked the comment of the witnessing officer "please disregard his evidence" 

....Going for the jugular straight from the start is quite a common tactic in the courtroom. Try facing a barrister who had been charmingly chatting with you in the corridors of The High Court whose then opening speech to the High Court Judge was asking that your 3yo son is taken out of your parental care! Fortunately, I had presented The Judge with a 2-inch thick ringbinder of correspondence which he had been legally obliged to read and so he consequently was able to rule that I had a case to be heard. We subsequently had the case dismissed after I called expert witnesses from America.

Thanks to William Garrow in the 18th Century, the courtroom system is adversarial and is better for being so. You have to remain objective and not take everything personally.

[Horatio]

Two very different cases Robin.

[RedRobin]

Two very different cases Robin.

....Certainly, but all English courts use an adversarial system do they not? And that is all that was happening - The prosecution in the OP's case (and in my case) was attempting to get a fast and favourable (to them) result. Nothing wrong with that. Even less waste of time and money for those who are bothered by such matters.

[R32UK]

The police do cover up mistakes from time to time, highlighted quite recently..........Hillsborough.

....Isn't that yet to be fully investigated and proved? (I don't buy the newspapers).

But let's assume for a moment that a Police cover up at Hillsborough is proved. Would you tar all Police with the same brush (or in your case, Clunge Sponge)?

Not only did the police cover up their own mistakes by changing witness statements but they also changed those of the ambulance services and others. This was an order from top to bottom i.e. everyone who was part of the disaster that day would have known about the cover up.

However a few choice stories sold to press (by... yes the police!!) and suddenly its someone elses fault. So in response to your original question, "would you tar all police with the same brush?" - Maybe not all, but a huge majority seem to stick together and very rarely break ranks to speak the 'truth'. I think if you were to brand all the police involved in the hillsborough incident... then you would be quite correct to brand them all 'cnuts', and that is being nice.

Well done to the OP for showing up these power crazed fools for what they are 

[Horatio]

Two very different cases Robin.

....Certainly, but all English courts use an adversarial system do they not? And that is all that was happening - The prosecution in the OP's case (and in my case) was attempting to get a fast and favourable (to them) result. Nothing wrong with that. Even less waste of time and money for those who are bothered by such matters.

The English Court system was never designed to be adervsarial. An adversarial process is one that supports conflicting one-sided positions held by individuals i.e as we have seen here the policy officer advising the judge to discard the OP's evidence. How is that a fair and justice legal system? The court system, anywhere in the world, is all about revenue nothing more nothing less. It not about serving justice anymore. Its just a business. That is exactly how I see it.

[RedRobin]

The English Court system was never designed to be adervsarial. An adversarial process is one that supports conflicting one-sided positions held by individuals i.e as we have seen here the policy officer advising the judge to discard the OP's evidence. How is that a fair and justice legal system?

....Please research the life of William Garrow and his influence on the English court system. The adversarial system is a legal system where two advocates represent their parties' positions before an impartial person or group of people, usually a jury or judge, who attempt to determine the truth of the case.

The adversarial system is the two-sided structure under which trial courts operate that pits the prosecution against the defense. Justice is done when the most effective adversary is able to convince the judge or jury that his or her perspective on the case is the correct one.

In that context, it is perfectly acceptable for either parties' representative in court to present their case as strongly as they possibly can - Their aim is to discredit the other party's position and convince a court of the truth of their own position. It's a form of legal debate.

How would you prefer court matters to be conducted?

In my opinion, that is a fair and just legal system and most other people would agree.

The court system, anywhere in the world, is all about revenue nothing more nothing less. It not about serving justice anymore. Its just a business. That is exactly how I see it.

....Crikey! I am sorry for you if you see it that way. May you never find yourself needing the judgement of a court!

[Tamiyoman]

The police do cover up mistakes from time to time, highlighted quite recently..........Hillsborough.

....Isn't that yet to be fully investigated and proved? (I don't buy the newspapers).

But let's assume for a moment that a Police cover up at Hillsborough is proved. Would you tar all Police with the same brush (or in your case, Clunge Sponge)?

Well it was on the news the other night and there was a senior officer apologising to the families of the 96, so I guess they admitted they covered up quite a bit and lied about things, it happens, at least they have now come to admit it (after a report showed they were lying).

Not intending to tar all with same brush, like any occupation the %age of bad uns tar it for the rest themselves, I have several mates currently in the police force and several who came out in last 3-10 years, I also play golf with 2 ex coppers so I am fortunate enough to have heard quite a lot of goings on   (Seems lots of ex-police in cornwall and tbh all sound blokes).

One of mates in police has not changed, same bloke he used to be and is doing well, another particularly likes the "Heavier" stuff in the force (Think batons/shields and full body armour, but he always did like a scrap anyway!  ) but the other 2 are complete tools, flashing their badges everywhere (usually when we are on a night out to doormen of all things....cock  ), never off duty it seems  

[Horatio]

The English Court system was never designed to be adervsarial. An adversarial process is one that supports conflicting one-sided positions held by individuals i.e as we have seen here the policy officer advising the judge to discard the OP's evidence. How is that a fair and justice legal system?

....Please research the life of William Garrow and his influence on the English court system. The adversarial system is a legal system where two advocates represent their parties' positions before an impartial person or group of people, usually a jury or judge, who attempt to determine the truth of the case.

The adversarial system is the two-sided structure under which trial courts operate that pits the prosecution against the defense. Justice is done when the most effective adversary is able to convince the judge or jury that his or her perspective on the case is the correct one.

In that context, it is perfectly acceptable for either parties' representative in court to present their case as strongly as they possibly can - Their aim is to discredit the other party's position and convince a court of the truth of their own position. It's a form of legal debate.

How would you prefer court matters to be conducted?

In my opinion, that is a fair and just legal system and most other people would agree.

The court system, anywhere in the world, is all about revenue nothing more nothing less. It not about serving justice anymore. Its just a business. That is exactly how I see it.

....Crikey! I am sorry for you if you see it that way. May you never find yourself needing the judgement of a court!

oh please, your pity is not required!  God will only ever pass judgement on me. Not a man in a costume and silly wig! We are all assumed to "The Law" Robin, so it would seem.

As for William Garrow...pah. Another corrupt judge and politician. "known for his indirect reform of the advocacy system, which helped usher in the adversarial court system used in most common law nations today." WHY? Because common law courts only ever benefitted the injured parties, not the courts or judges. Believe it or not there two jurisdictions that cover the face of this land. Common Law and Statute Law. The difference? Common Law only ever relates to another person commiting harm, loss, injury or fraud on another person. Statute Law relates to all things involving fiat paper currency, fines, debtors and creditors, bonds, trusts etc etc....

 read this again please. An adversarial process is one that supports conflicting one-sided positions held by individuals

Statute Law requires consent, as defined in Blacks Law Dictionary "A given Rule of Society, by corporation of rule, given the force of Law by consent of the Governed"

The OP may have broken the law but he did not commit a crime by causing harm, loss, injury or fraud? Non?

[RedRobin]

The OP may have broken the law but he did not commit a crime by causing harm, loss, injury or fraud? Non?

....Agreed. The discussion had moved on to the subject of the adversarial nature of the court system and not any question of whether the OP had committed a crime causing harm, loss, injury, or fraud etc. Yes, I realise that both Common Law and Statute Law exist. However, the basic principle in fair justice remains that differing positions contest with each other, criminal or otherwsie, be it Joe Bloggs versus The Court/Magistrates or Joe Bloggs versus A N Other in front of a court's proceedings.

Rightly or wrongly, I refer to such opposing positions as "adversary".

As for William Garrow...pah. Another corrupt judge and politician.

....Do you judge all politicians and judges to be be corrupt in your perspective?

[RedRobin]

Well it was on the news the other night and there was a senior officer apologising to the families of the 96, so I guess they admitted they covered up quite a bit and lied about things, it happens, at least they have now come to admit it (after a report showed they were lying).

Not intending to tar all with same brush, like any occupation the %age of bad uns tar it for the rest themselves, I have several mates currently in the police force and several who came out in last 3-10 years, I also play golf with 2 ex coppers so I am fortunate enough to have heard quite a lot of goings on  (Seems lots of ex-police in cornwall and tbh all sound blokes).

One of mates in police has not changed, same bloke he used to be and is doing well, another particularly likes the "Heavier" stuff in the force (Think batons/shields and full body armour, but he always did like a scrap anyway!  ) but the other 2 are complete tools, flashing their badges everywhere (usually when we are on a night out to doormen of all things....cock  ), never off duty it seems 

....Hence perfectly illustrating how every basket of fruit has both good ones and bad ones. We are all human afterall, even Big Bang's Sheldon Cooper! Penny is from Heaven though.

It seems to me sometimes that far too many people on car forums are prejudiced against the Police. The Police stop me from doing much of what I would love to do, but I respect them and am never prejudiced against them because of a few bad ones. 

[dodds-gttdi]

Must every topic on here turn into a technical and gramatical debate. Apart from being way off topic for the last page or so, Patrick has had his query/problem resolved.

...away to put my flamesuit on...