Two Police deaths in Manchester

[scooba]

I  was listening too two colleagues discussing the death of the two women this week one was off the opinion it is tragic and the other said is it any more tragic than them young lads in Afghan murdered in Cold blood !. I found my self unable to decide as one said there isnt any fuss when when a 20 yr old squaddie  is shot dead  ,It makes you think what a messed up place we live in , Would the death penalty be any deterent  ?

[Moz]

Not really sure if this is the place to discuss such topics, but both cases are close to my heart, given my best friend was killed in action 4 years ago, by friendly fire! and my sister and her husband are both police officers.

To some extent, when you join the forces, especially the armed forces and you train for combat, an option of death, should you be deployed is always on your mind, as a true and real risk.

Obviously there are tragic incidents which have occurred away from the battlefield where service men, and women have passed, these are tragic for everyone involved, and their families and friends, I still think of him every single day.

On the other side, an operational police officer, also carries risks, but on a different level, the risk of murder, death, fatally wounded is lower, but doesn't make it any less dangerous in it's own right.

The event which took place, only 5 miles from my house was awful, and the way they were brought into that scenario is something you'll NEVER plan for, no matter how much training you do, how much protection you wear (and still try and police and be active) wouldn't have been enough.

To compare the two, is ridiculous, and outright stupid, in my opinion.


My only wish here, is that we impose the maximum sentence possible under current laws to ensure this criminal never smells the outside air again, and lives his live like a rabbit in a box, even that, for me, is too good.

I don't agree with the death penalty, as for me, one wrong decision is one too many, we don't have an adequate justice system to be able to dictate who lives and who dies.

As that brings the argument of mental stability at the times of crimes, just because a board of doctors say he's sane, is he? Is that enough reason to kill a man?

I don't believe so, I believe this drives the wrong behaviors within society.

One thing I will say, is may those perished, rest in peace, and those effected, my thoughts are with them.

Death is a horrible thing, premeditated or not, and until you go through it personally and closest to you, you don't have a true appreciation for life.

[SRC]

I was going to respond, but found I couldn't add anything to Moz's comment above, and nor could I put it any better.

[RedRobin]

.
Whether people are killed in military service or in police service, the tragedy is the same for the families, friends, and colleagues involved.

The tragedies do not need to be compared.

[Top Cat]

Eloquently put Moz.  

You normally find Murders like these are perpetrated by people with some sort of mental issues and they go on to kill themselves. This animal just went and handed itself in. It just seems to be pure Evil with no respect for life whatsoever.
Sadly it will spend the rest of his life as some sort of top Dog in prison.  

[RedRobin]

.
What's particularly sick is apparently there is a Facebook page supporting/praising the guy who murdered the Police officers.

[scooba]

.
What's particularly sick is apparently there is a Facebook page supporting/praising the guy who murdered the Police officers.

Why hasnt it been taken down by the Facebook team ?

[andrewparker]

It has, and the person has been arrested.

[berg]

am sure if you are connected it is easy enough to buy a handgun in the roughest parts of UK cities but who sells hand grenades by the dozen? worrying indeed.

i dont think you can compare the deaths. if you join the army death in service is an accepted risk; if you join the police i don think it is. verbal abuse, being spat at, battery and assault maybe but you dont expect/accept to be gunned down and have a military grade weapon thrown at you 

[RedRobin]

^^^^
The risks are different between military and police services but any resulting deaths are an equal tragedy for the families and friends in either case. But if your number is up it's game over, whatever you do in life.

The man in this case has now been charged with four murders. Nasty piece of scum by anyone's judgement.

[Tamiyoman]

am sure if you are connected it is easy enough to buy a handgun in the roughest parts of UK cities but who sells hand grenades by the dozen? worrying indeed.
  

Buying a gun is pretty easy if you have £1000 to spend and know the right people, does not have to be in a big city either, lots of people just "Re-activate" display guns, new firing pin/action is easy enough to order from USA in parts.........  

Unfortunately it's nigh on impossible to stop the criminals getting guns (Too many ways into the country for that to happen), I know most are against it but I think ALL UK police should be armed, chances are less criminals would pull the trigger if they thought someone would shoot back! (I suspect this is why the nutter handed himself in), rather than get shot dead by armed police he will likely be revered by his fellow inmates in HM holiday camp! (Disgustingly!). 

[Moz]

I agree with all the above, regarding the use of guns.

Manchester, unfortunately, we have a high gun crime count, and many, many unrecorded incidents of gun crime that the national press do not get onto. You would not believe how easy it is for, an average joe to buy a guy.

You do not have to be connected, you do not have to be involved in a gang, you can ask certain people within certain areas of Manchester and you'll have a gun in no time.

We have a very large anti social network (not saying it's better or worse than others) we just go, and certain areas of Manchester like others are No go areas for even the police.

In this case, Dale Cregan was hanging around for months in a local estate, nobody said a word. Not because of what he done, or who he was. But it's just a code of silence. That sickens me, that for incidents as tragic as these, and for the reasons he was on the run, no body said anything. It begs the question, if they all knew he was there, they didn't the police? Why - Manchesters crime code of silence, we sort out our own troubles, in our own community.

The worst thing we could possibly do, is to arm our police force. Our police do an utterly superb job, in very demanding circumstances, over stretched on work hours, and receive little pay for the "on demand" attention they must provide to the community, both and on shift.

As said earlier, I hope Dale Cregan rots in hell, and dies a slow painful dealth.

[andrewparker]

You would not believe how easy it is for, an average joe to buy a guy.

Have you been down to Canal St. again?

[Moz]

Well spotted, serves me right for not proof reading.

[Tamiyoman]

When I used to go in the Hacienda when I was a Young lad we used to spot Guns in there regularly, usually belonging/attached to a Drug Dealer/Gangster type, one of them pulled a gun on me once for "bumping into him"   (Blind cretin actually walked straight into me!, I was sat down at the time! ), Just gave him a thumbs up and carried on talking to my GF  

Only went back once after that tho, it was getting less and less clubbers and more gangsters /  wannabe gangsters so we went elsewhere for our fun!