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Author Topic: Hpfp upgrade  (Read 57168 times)

Offline Marshall

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Re: Hpfp upgrade
« Reply #60 on: September 29, 2012, 10:16:36 am »
Are you sure mate?
I messaged Dave on Tuesday and he was on audit as you say so would need to wait till this Tuesday.
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Offline Tfsi_Mike

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Re: Hpfp upgrade
« Reply #61 on: September 29, 2012, 10:17:15 am »

Perhaps there has been a price increase then  :happy2:

Offline JonnyF

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Re: Re: Hpfp upgrade
« Reply #62 on: September 29, 2012, 10:49:55 am »
I got one from Dave in person a month ago for 135. A few pounds should post it.

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Offline Marshall

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Re: Hpfp upgrade
« Reply #63 on: September 29, 2012, 08:18:06 pm »
If I add a APR pump to a stage 2 APR car will I notice any difference or will I need to go 2+ to notice?
Just it'll be a little while till I'm anywhere near Awesome Gti and wondered if it was a noticeable difference.
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Offline rich83

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Re: Hpfp upgrade
« Reply #64 on: September 30, 2012, 08:40:11 am »
So. The APR fuel pump is just an OEM pump with APR internals fitted?

I struggle to see why they are so much dearer than autotech internals+fitting. :-/

Offline Marshall

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Re: Hpfp upgrade
« Reply #65 on: September 30, 2012, 09:14:58 am »
APR use a different design piston and use an uprated seal to ensure no fuel goes into the engine oil.
Have a great reputation for reliability too.
But yes all pumps start as a oem pump.


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Offline E30Dom

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Re: Hpfp upgrade
« Reply #66 on: September 30, 2012, 09:45:37 am »
I thought then machined internals to really high tolerances and fit new seals and suited pistons etc... well worth the money for the reliabilty...

As for making a difference on stage 2, I think it just smooths out the power delivery, making sure it meets requested fuelling, so does run better. I know after going stage 2 with a ITG Panel filter and 3"/200CEL downpipe I dropped power to 272bhp(289bhp stage 1) and fitted the APR pump, EVOMS and BCS Exhaust and now at 310bhp... think that's more down to the EVOMS though as it derestricted it...

I hope to go stage 2+ though where the fuel pump will come into it's own... :)
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Offline scopes

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Re: Hpfp upgrade
« Reply #67 on: September 30, 2012, 11:54:08 am »
APR use a different design piston and use an uprated seal to ensure no fuel goes into the engine oil.
Have a great reputation for reliability too.
But yes all pumps start as a oem pump.


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Why is it known for other internals to let fuel in to the oil ?
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Offline RedRobin

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Re: Hpfp upgrade
« Reply #68 on: September 30, 2012, 12:18:34 pm »

APR use a different design piston and use an uprated seal to ensure no fuel goes into the engine oil.
Have a great reputation for reliability too.
But yes all pumps start as a oem pump.


Why is it known for other internals to let fuel in to the oil ?


....At the risk of appearing to trash the reputation of Autotech internals just because I have an APR pump (I am just reporting and have no such intentions):

There has been a case of a car with Autotech internals catching fire and getting wrecked. Investigations showed that the pump's failure started the fire. I don't know of any other similar cases but that doesn't mean that there aren't any.

For anyone who does decide to buy Autotech pump internals I would advise buying them new and also buying a brand new OEM pump to install them in and have it done by an expert.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2012, 12:21:35 pm by RedRobin »


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Offline RedRobin

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Re: Hpfp upgrade
« Reply #69 on: September 30, 2012, 12:27:07 pm »

As for making a difference on stage 2, I think it just smooths out the power delivery, making sure it meets requested fuelling, so does run better.


.... x 2

I found that with my K03 Mk5 GTI running on Revo Stage 2 with Twintake and Milltek, the APR pump improved my AFR (shown on JKM's dyno-plot) and also cured an occasional hesitation when accelerating hard. Fortunately I didn't experience any fuel cuts but that problem is not uncommon.

As a direct consequence, JKM were able to increase my B/T/F setting and my car feels much stronger in the mid to higher range. In fact, when needed for a quick overtake, the acceleration from ~60 to ~95 astounds me! I strictly keep it under 100 in the UK.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2012, 12:30:44 pm by RedRobin »


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Offline Jussa

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Re: Hpfp upgrade
« Reply #70 on: September 30, 2012, 12:47:57 pm »
Interesting thread this.

I know the original version of the Autotech's were apparently prone to failure, but can anybody confirm any failures on the internals from the later revisions?

TBH I've only ever been concerned with a possible failure of the cam follower.  If I fitted an APR pump would I still need to be worried about this as well?
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Offline E30Dom

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Re: Hpfp upgrade
« Reply #71 on: September 30, 2012, 01:21:14 pm »
Yes, replace when fitting and check more regularly...
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Offline RedRobin

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Re: Hpfp upgrade
« Reply #72 on: September 30, 2012, 02:54:22 pm »

Yes, replace when fitting and check more regularly...


....I assume you are referring to the cam follower, Dom  :happy2:


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Offline sub39h

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Re: Hpfp upgrade
« Reply #73 on: September 30, 2012, 03:56:34 pm »
I would like to know how the conclusion was reached that the fuel pump was responsible for the fire. Then I'd like to know how a fuel pump can be responsible for a fire, considering it's a piston pushing fuel so you need a source of ignition which is likely to be outside the fuel pump. Then I would like to know, if the above conditions are satisfied, how an Autotech specifically increased the likelihood of causing said fire.

Hundreds, if not thousands of Autotech HPFPs have been fitted. If fires were a serious risk we would certainly know about them. I'd also like to point out that with regular inspection the symptoms of an Autotech fuel pump failure would be obvious before any serious damage has been done. All you'd need to do would be to buy a new pump for less than £200. There has been a case of a catastrophic engine failure in the US on a car with an APR pump with no warning.

Less than £500 for an APR is good value, but modifying anything outside of OEM specs carries with it a degree of risk. I think you're kidding yourself if you think otherwise. What this boils down to is whether you think APR halve the risk, i.e. can be justified in charging 2-3x the price of an Autotech. I don't think they do, and for that reason I'm out.
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Offline RedRobin

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Re: Hpfp upgrade
« Reply #74 on: September 30, 2012, 04:25:22 pm »

I would like to know how the conclusion was reached that the fuel pump was responsible for the fire. Then I'd like to know how a fuel pump can be responsible for a fire, considering it's a piston pushing fuel so you need a source of ignition which is likely to be outside the fuel pump. Then I would like to know, if the above conditions are satisfied, how an Autotech specifically increased the likelihood of causing said fire.


....You would have to speak to people very much more expert than myself in investigating the causes of fires, whether automobile and/or otherwise. My understanding is that there was no doubt.

However, if as you report, there has also "been a case of a catastrophic engine failure in the US on a car with an APR pump with no warning", then as to be expected with even OEM fuel pumps, there is risk. OEM components are not devoid of any risk.

The wise man minimises the risks. That's why I suggested in my earlier post either fitting brand new Autotech internals in a brand new OEM pump or buying an APR pump (which I personally chose to do as it gives me far greater peace of mind). Simples  :smiley:

The Autotech vs APR debate will never be resolved because we each naturally tend to favour the individual choice we made.  :happy2:

I have asked this before, but hypothetically if the Autotech and APR pumps each cost exactly the same, which would you buy?



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