Hpfp upgrade

[Hurdy]

I think where the APR pump comes into its own is its used on many 2.0TFSI race cars around the world such as the Seat Sport and dunlop rqacing series or the 24hr golf Race cars in the states.  So its a proven entity in the harshest condition for an engine and i guess you pay for that reassurance on quality and performance.

The Autotech internals havent had any of that, and overtime have proven to fail on many cars after 30-60k.

Sorry Sy but that last statement is a little OTT. True, there have been SOME failures, but to say many cars is misleading. There are MANY people running Autotech including myself and are very happy with them.

Regarding the Loba HPFP. I have been lucky enough to see a few already and they are worth the money and if I was a gambling man I'd put my money on the specs of the Loba being higher than the APR offering and being able to flow more if the lpfp side can supply it with fuel.

I'm also lucky enough to see the specs of most of the Loba stuff and know some of the companies background and wouldn't hesitate on using any of their products when the time is right.

£500 for the Loba pump is a bargain compared with the APR pump. If I needed to swap I'd definitely be knocking down Loba's door for one.

 

[Janner_Sy]

Sorry Sy but that last statement is a little OTT. True, there have been SOME failures, but to say many cars is misleading. There are MANY people running Autotech including myself and are very happy with them.

Regarding the Loba HPFP. I have been lucky enough to see a few already and they are worth the money and if I was a gambling man I'd put my money on the specs of the Loba being higher than the APR offering and being able to flow more if the lpfp side can supply it with fuel.

I'm also lucky enough to see the specs of most of the Loba stuff and know some of the companies background and wouldn't hesitate on using any of their products when the time is right.

£500 for the Loba pump is a bargain compared with the APR pump. If I needed to swap I'd definitely be knocking down Loba's door for one.:

A little OTT I guess. I also ran the autotech internals on mine with no issues, but I wouldn't do it again.

I see where the guys are coming from though. One company says their pump does x,y&z and is happy to publish test results and construction details. Another says the same but doesnt post any results or details other than it does work.

I see no reason why these details couldn't be posted, its not as if its going to be copied, APR have had those details available for years without anyone copying them!! And I highly doubt APR would copy it when their pump can already flow enough for stage 4 power levels with headroom

[vRSAlex]

Its not like someone could buy a Loba or APR pump, strip it apart and copy it?  Could they?   

[rich83]

Its not like someone could buy a Loba or APR pump, strip it apart and copy it?  Could they?   

That would be impossible.... AKS fuel pump here we come!

[vRSAlex]

Its not like someone could buy a Loba or APR pump, strip it apart and copy it?  Could they?   

That would be impossible.... AKS fuel pump here we come!

I will get some stickers made up! 

[GNJ_Motorsport]

I think it has to be pointed out that Si could post up a dossier of evidence and individuals who have decided that the world revolves around a certain tuner or their parts would attempt to pull it to pieces anyway  Much in the same way if I posted Shark software related stuff the APR & REVO knives would be out, a lot of it laughable quite frankly.

It is all a bit sad really. We went to Autosport a few weeks ago and the amount of bitching going on was unreal, like a big episode of Corrie but a load of blokes in their 30/40's that should quite frankly know better. I have said it before, I'll say it again; I will only ever post about what we CAN do and not what others CAN'T DO.

As I said earlier on in the thread, there are a lot of high powered cars running the LOBA pump (Statllers GTI for example) It has been proved to work and does work. If people don't like the secrecy around how they have made it then as blunt as it sounds, don't buy it. Daruis and the guys at LOBA want to keep it to themselves and that is their choice.

Plenty were sold at the old higher price and more will be sold at the new price. Lets not forget that the APR pump has been around a while and was no doubt questioned as well when it was released.

[h4rdy]

Its not like someone could buy a Loba or APR pump, strip it apart and copy it?  Could they?   

That would be impossible.... AKS fuel pump here we come!

I will get some stickers made up! 

 

On a serious note though if your paying even the cheaper price you want to know what your buying.

I thought long and hard about the Loba but there just wasn't enough information pertaining to what has been done.

APR is a little too expensive for me.

Autotech have been performing well and I got at a very good price.

I'm lucky that I have the facilities and skill set to do a lot myself.

I will add that every time I have emailed Loba I have had a great response, but the fact is I have had to email for more info, not a problem I suppose but it may put some off.

I think they could put more info without giving the whole game away................

[RedRobin]

I think it has to be pointed out that Si could post up a dossier of evidence and individuals who have decided that the world revolves around a certain tuner or their parts would attempt to pull it to pieces anyway  Much in the same way if I posted Shark software related stuff the APR & REVO knives would be out, a lot of it laughable quite frankly.

It is all a bit sad really. We went to Autosport a few weeks ago and the amount of bitching going on was unreal, like a big episode of Corrie but a load of blokes in their 30/40's that should quite frankly know better. I have said it before, I'll say it again; I will only ever post about what we CAN do and not what others CAN'T DO.

As I said earlier on in the thread, there are a lot of high powered cars running the LOBA pump (Statllers GTI for example) It has been proved to work and does work. If people don't like the secrecy around how they have made it then as blunt as it sounds, don't buy it. Daruis and the guys at LOBA want to keep it to themselves and that is their choice.

Plenty were sold at the old higher price and more will be sold at the new price. Lets not forget that the APR pump has been around a while and was no doubt questioned as well when it was released.

....I think that you are overreacting - I don't read anyone in this thread trashing Loba's HPFP by claiming that APR's or Autotech's pump is superior. All I read is many folks asking the same question as h4rdy does..............................

On a serious note though if your paying even the cheaper price you want to know what your buying.

I thought long and hard about the Loba but there just wasn't enough information pertaining to what has been done.

APR is a little too expensive for me.

Autotech have been performing well and I got at a very good price.

I'm lucky that I have the facilities and skill set to do a lot myself.

I will add that every time I have emailed Loba I have had a great response, but the fact is I have had to email for more info, not a problem I suppose but it may put some off.

I think they could put more info without giving the whole game away................

....If Loba want to keep it all so secret then so be it, but they better not expect their big stock which they ordered to enable a reduced price, to fly out of the door like hot cakes.

It's very fundamental, regardless of ANY product automotive or otherwise, prospective buyers want information BEFORE they part with their money.

Until Loba stop playing silly games or explain their attitude more fully, my recommendation to anyone considering upgrading their HPFP would be go APR or if money is limited, buy a brand new unused OEM pump and get the Autotech internals fitted by an expert.

C'mon Loba!! Give your prospective buyers some information!! 

[rich83]

In reality LOBA probably bought a APR pump... took it apart and copied it. 

[tony_danza]

I may be wrong here, but I believe APR also refuse to release technical information about their pump. They give the headline capabilities and you have to trust it does what they say. Now, we obviously know it does work and works very well - are we to believe they're the only people in the world capable of this?

Now whilst I've never been a fan of the APR marketing technique of doubling the price and then saying everything else cheaper is sh*t - don't necessarily believe that just because something costs less, it is any less well R&D'd and engineered. I can give you a million examples of a cottage industry producing far superior products than the big names, in any chosen field.

If either company want to rubbish each other's product, then leave them to do it between themselves. I don't know LOBA, I don't own anything LOBA, but if things are going to progress to ease dominance by the few, then it's only a good thing for all.

[RedRobin]

I may be wrong here, but I believe APR also refuse to release technical information about their pump. They give the headline capabilities and you have to trust it does what they say. Now, we obviously know it does work and works very well - are we to believe they're the only people in the world capable of this?

....Plenty of technical info made public by APR here, Mike:   http://www.goapr.co.uk/products/fsi_fuel_pump.html

If either company want to rubbish each other's product, then leave them to do it between themselves. I don't know LOBA, I don't own anything LOBA, but if things are going to progress to ease dominance by the few, then it's only a good thing for all.

....Agreed about rubbishing - It's a bad trait by whoever does it and always puts me off buying a product. But I see no rubbishing of competitor's products going on in this thread so far.

In order for things to progress and there be more choices of HPFP's, Loba need to be much more informative about their product. Their insistence on secrecy unfortunately fills me with mistrust. Their representative on this forum is doing them no favours.

[DaveB@Vagbremtechnic]

Hello APR please can I have the rationale behind your piston design and who manufactures your seals please ......ooh and whist I'm on their phone number.........


CLICK......burrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr


Hello Loba please can I have the rationale behind your piston design and who manufactures your seals please ......ooh and whist I'm on their phone number.........


CLICK......burrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

Its fair to say getting a pump to flow loads of fuel is not hard, getting it to do it reliably for a six figure mileage more so.

So assembly and seals are the important bit,

FACT:Darius is ex Quattro GMBH on the R & D side so probably knows a supplier or two not just for production car but for one off engines too.............
FACT: Darius is a qualified German Engineer with a workshop you could eat your dinner off the floor
FACT: Loba pumps are well tested
FACT: APR have sold a LOT of pumps with an excellent record for reliability
FACT: APR have had their pumps race tested in a full on Motorsport environment there is no better test.

If I was in the market place for a £500 component that fits in a 4" square box I'd be on the phone to both asking the pertinent questions, there are NO words on here that would sway me one way or the other.

One thing I might say is that if its an internal change only and assuming APRs internals are not Gold plated titanium assembled on the thigh of a Cuban Virgin why are they the price they are? My machine shop manufactures 5 axis for F1 where precision is KEY for reliability I know how much stuff costs to make and one of the questions I would be asking APR would be price justification....The Loba one was expensive but once you've recouped some R&D costs you can bring it down.....did APR forget to?

If the Loba pump gets a foothold and if its a cheaper and works then it will, then APR will either react price wise or sell less pumps. as Mike says its good for the consumer.

APR have obviously got it right technically and some would see great value in that and who could blame them

[tony_danza]

I may be wrong here, but I believe APR also refuse to release technical information about their pump. They give the headline capabilities and you have to trust it does what they say. Now, we obviously know it does work and works very well - are we to believe they're the only people in the world capable of this?

....Plenty of technical info made public by APR here, Mike:   http://www.goapr.co.uk/products/fsi_fuel_pump.html

If either company want to rubbish each other's product, then leave them to do it between themselves. I don't know LOBA, I don't own anything LOBA, but if things are going to progress to ease dominance by the few, then it's only a good thing for all.

....Agreed about rubbishing - It's a bad trait by whoever does it and always puts me off buying a product. But I see no rubbishing of competitor's products going on in this thread so far.

In order for things to progress and there be more choices of HPFP's, Loba need to be much more informative about their product. Their insistence on secrecy unfortunately fills me with mistrust. Their representative on this forum is doing them no favours.

I don't call that APR page technical data, that's headlines and sales. And rightly so, I wouldn't be sharing my R&D either.

I fear a lot of what LOBA is trying to achieve is being lost in translation, I wouldn't mistrust them, but they do need a guiding hand on how to deal with the UK market.

[GNJ_Motorsport]

I think it has to be pointed out that Si could post up a dossier of evidence and individuals who have decided that the world revolves around a certain tuner or their parts would attempt to pull it to pieces anyway  Much in the same way if I posted Shark software related stuff the APR & REVO knives would be out, a lot of it laughable quite frankly.

It is all a bit sad really. We went to Autosport a few weeks ago and the amount of bitching going on was unreal, like a big episode of Corrie but a load of blokes in their 30/40's that should quite frankly know better. I have said it before, I'll say it again; I will only ever post about what we CAN do and not what others CAN'T DO.

As I said earlier on in the thread, there are a lot of high powered cars running the LOBA pump (Statllers GTI for example) It has been proved to work and does work. If people don't like the secrecy around how they have made it then as blunt as it sounds, don't buy it. Daruis and the guys at LOBA want to keep it to themselves and that is their choice.

Plenty were sold at the old higher price and more will be sold at the new price. Lets not forget that the APR pump has been around a while and was no doubt questioned as well when it was released.

....I think that you are overreacting - I don't read anyone in this thread trashing Loba's HPFP by claiming that APR's or Autotech's pump is superior. All I read is many folks asking the same question as h4rdy does..............................

On a serious note though if your paying even the cheaper price you want to know what your buying.

I thought long and hard about the Loba but there just wasn't enough information pertaining to what has been done.

APR is a little too expensive for me.

Autotech have been performing well and I got at a very good price.

I'm lucky that I have the facilities and skill set to do a lot myself.

I will add that every time I have emailed Loba I have had a great response, but the fact is I have had to email for more info, not a problem I suppose but it may put some off.

I think they could put more info without giving the whole game away................

....If Loba want to keep it all so secret then so be it, but they better not expect their big stock which they ordered to enable a reduced price, to fly out of the door like hot cakes.

It's very fundamental, regardless of ANY product automotive or otherwise, prospective buyers want information BEFORE they part with their money.

Until Loba stop playing silly games or explain their attitude more fully, my recommendation to anyone considering upgrading their HPFP would be go APR or if money is limited, buy a brand new unused OEM pump and get the Autotech internals fitted by an expert.

C'mon Loba!! Give your prospective buyers some information!! 

I'm not really sure how you came to the conclusion that I was over reacting? I was making light of the discussion to be honest.

I will post our feedback on the LOBA pump when we fit it to our GTI in the spring.

[Hedge]

I will only ever post about what we CAN do and not what others CAN'T DO.

That is an excellent mantra that others should follow.