CH on Cars (M135i vs RS3)

[Poverty]

Is it more fun though? Arguably no.


Anyway dunno what this big hoo haa is about.

The RS3 is just a modern day rs2. So if anything Audi are fully following their heritage. Lots of straight line go, lots of grip and lots of understeer.

As for BMW they have lost their way with their M series.

The E46 m3 is still better than any M car they have made since.

[Poverty]

Does the TTRS understeer that badly in standard form?

No.

TTRS is 200kg lighter, lower center of gravity, runs 255 width tyres all around aswell as different camber and track iirc.

TTRS s-tronic smashes the e92 m3 around the track by quite a margin.

Sport Auto Ring lap times.

M3 8:05
TT RS 8:09

Or are we playing modified cars vs stock again?

Where did you get that BMW time from?

The Audi time was done by a journo. If Audi spent a week there with a pro driver it would blitz that time.

[Top Cat]

 lots of grip and lots of understeer.

How did you manage to fit lots of grip and lots of under steer, into the same sentence.  

[sub39h]

M from a few years ago (paraphrased) "we will never have a turbocharged, automatic or SUV M car".

But look what they did with them. The 4.4L twin-turbo V8 is an absolute peach. It's quicker than the V10, it's more economical, and more useable. It improved the M5 unquestionably. When the M3 gets a smaller capacity turbocharged engine that will undoubtedly be a better car, not because it makes BMW more money, but because it makes the car better! The DCT 'box is arguably the best semi-automatic 'box available. Again, it betters the PERFORMANCE of their cars.

I would have to respectfully disagree. Selling out your heritage is selling out your heritage. Subjectively and objectively the X5M and X6M cars are ridiculous and are a prime example of M doing this purely in the interest of profit. Therefore, BMW have made their intentions perfectly clear.

Additionally, they have implied that turbocharging is not what they feel is in the best interest of the brand, but are willing to make this compromise in the interest of building a car that will make them a profit.

Audi have done exactly the same. They have built a car they feel will serve them best in the marketplace. I don't see a difference between the two.

As I mention above, Audi are market leaders in several segments where their cars are not the byword in performance and handling. Therefore using the fundamental definition of the "better" car being the one that sells the most, Audi have demonstrated that more performance and better handling do not necessarily make a better car.

[Poverty]

Does the TTRS understeer that badly in standard form?

No.

TTRS is 200kg lighter, lower center of gravity, runs 255 width tyres all around aswell as different camber and track iirc.

TTRS s-tronic smashes the e92 m3 around the track by quite a margin.

Sport Auto Ring lap times.

M3 8:05
TT RS 8:09

Or are we playing modified cars vs stock again?

Nurburgring f1 track

Driver: Guido Naumann (AutoBild Sportscars)
2:23,41 min - Audi TT RS Plus S-tronic
2:28,23 min - BMW M3 DKG Competition Package


Euro speedway

Driver: Guido Naumann (AutoBild Sportscars)

1:37,06 min - Audi TT RS Plus S-tronic
1:39,52 min - BMW M3 DKG Competition Package

Sachensring

Driver: Guido Naumann (AutoBild Sportscars)
1:38,71 min - Audi TT RS Plus S-tronic
1:40,65 min - BMW M3 DKG Competition Package

[Poverty]

 lots of grip and lots of understeer.

How did you manage to fit lots of grip and lots of under steer, into the same sentence.  

Grip and handling are two very different things

[Top Cat]

Not to sure about that, under steer is lack of front end grip, is it not!. 

[Sunglasses Ron]

M from a few years ago (paraphrased) "we will never have a turbocharged, automatic or SUV M car".

But look what they did with them. The 4.4L twin-turbo V8 is an absolute peach. It's quicker than the V10, it's more economical, and more useable. It improved the M5 unquestionably. When the M3 gets a smaller capacity turbocharged engine that will undoubtedly be a better car, not because it makes BMW more money, but because it makes the car better! The DCT 'box is arguably the best semi-automatic 'box available. Again, it betters the PERFORMANCE of their cars.

I would have to respectfully disagree. Selling out your heritage is selling out your heritage. Subjectively and objectively the X5M and X6M cars are ridiculous and are a prime example of M doing this purely in the interest of profit. Therefore, BMW have made their intentions perfectly clear.

I reckon I could count the amount of X5M and X6M's that BMW have sold on my little piggies.. Can't imagine they have made a huge profit on them..   Total, pointless, fashion accessory IMO. But then so are all fast, gas guzzling 4x4's..

[Poverty]

Not to sure about that, under steer is lack of front end grip, is it not!. 

Not really no completely different. I'm not articulate enough to explain the difference but have read enough about the subject by people that are in the know that it's not the same at all.

[Top Cat]

Grip is exactly what it says, the RS3 has lots of grip compared to a 2 wheel drive car because it has 4 wheel drive. But it doesnt have lots of grip if the front wheels wont grip while turning. I understand why you think it has lots of grip but you cant say that in a sentence if you also say it under steers 

[Poverty]

Grip is exactly what it says, the RS3 has lots of grip compared to a 2 wheel drive car because it has 4 wheel drive. But it doesnt have lots of grip if the front wheels wont grip while turning. I understand why you think it has lots of grip but you cant say that in a sentence if you also say it under steers 

No thats not right.

The car only has the 4wd advantage under power. Read any review of say the old rs2 and the journos speak of massive grip  in corners but also understeer.

How can a car understeer in a corner sometimes, but have masses of grip at other times? If the front tyres weren't gripping then the  CH wouldnt have shredded the front tyres would he.

It's like saying the Evos are the best handling cars in the world because they have generate so much grip. Well actually a e46 m3 doesn't have as much grip but still is regarded as a better handling car.

Grip and handling are not the same thing.

[Hedge]

Sounds like you're confusing grip and traction which are 2 totally different things.

4WD cars have loads of traction because they are 4WD yet the same amount of grip as a 2WD car as that is down to physics and the coefficient of friction of the tyres.

[Poverty]

No we aren't talking forward motion here. We are talking cornering grip.

The suspension setup of a car can affect how a car handles and how it grips.

Just because it understeers at the limit, doesn't mean it doesn't also have phenomenal grip.

The rs3 has masses of transitional grip. You can throw it about be stupid and it does as you tell it and it grips the road, on power or off. However on the limits it understeers. Just because it understeers at the limit doesn't mean it doesnt has masses of grip every other time.

It's like a go kart. Low grip but handles sh*t hot.

[Oli]

I reckon I could count the amount of X5M and X6M's that BMW have sold on my little piggies.. Can't imagine they have made a huge profit on them..   Total, pointless, fashion accessory IMO. But then so are all fast, gas guzzling 4x4's..

Ive driven an X6M around Brands in anger, and I have to say it went rather well, even handled well!  I hassled M3s down the back striaght on every lap!

[rich83]

 

Show me an audi that doesnt understeer? Thats under 50K? They all do it... even the ones with PROPPER quattro, not micky mouse 4mo.