CH on Cars (M135i vs RS3)

[tony_danza]

Does the TTRS understeer that badly in standard form?

No.

TTRS is 200kg lighter, lower center of gravity, runs 255 width tyres all around aswell as different camber and track iirc.

TTRS s-tronic smashes the e92 m3 around the track by quite a margin.

Sport Auto Ring lap times.

M3 8:05
TT RS 8:09

Or are we playing modified cars vs stock again?

Where did you get that BMW time from?

The Audi time was done by a journo. If Audi spent a week there with a pro driver it would blitz that time.

They're both Sport Auto's official time, so both set by their driver. Either HVS or Rohrl.

The times you added are what I'd expect to see, a significantly lighter car is quicker over a shorter track. The Ring has 2 2nd gear corners, so is more about the ability to carry speed and drag itself up big hills, so the M3 will have a slight advantage. Although Sport Auto's Hockenheim lap puts the M3 faster too.

They're both fairly evenly matched over both sets of figures, I think that's a very good achievement for the cheaper TTRS.

Trouble with stats is they can prove or disprove any point... But the TTRS "blitz" an M3 in stock vs stock? No, it will never do it I'm afraid. Be pragmatic and look at the facts.

Anyway, we're moving away from the topic. The RS3 is no TTRS with a boot, I think that's fairly obvious.

http://www.sportauto.de/rundenzeiten-nuerburgring-nordschleife-3649995.html?p=1&sort=ZeitNS&order=ASC

[sub39h]

Show me an audi that doesnt understeer? Thats under 50K? They all do it... even the ones with PROPPER quattro, not micky mouse 4mo.

2nd hand R8

[rich83]

Show me an audi that doesnt understeer? Thats under 50K? They all do it... even the ones with PROPPER quattro, not micky mouse 4mo.

2nd hand R8

  Ok... you got me there.... i meant 'new' 

[Janner_Sy]

Thats a pretty damning review for the RS3.  And considering its been well and truly mayched by a car for 10k less, is pretty embarrassing for the brand i think.

Almost like having a standard Mk6 Golf GTI match a Mk6 Golf R in every department.

Just like CH said, if the M135 is that good, what will the new M1 be like   surely it will annihilate the RS3.  And now that BMW have moved to turbo charged engines, its an even better tuning base.

We know a stage 2 RS3 is approx 430hp, so whats a stage 2 M135i?  

[tony_danza]

Plenty of 500hp 135is in the States, it won't be long before the newer version is somewhere close.

[rich83]

I bet youd be lucky to get 1 track day out of a set of rears running 500bhp... 

[sub39h]

Let's just wait for the new RS3 before we compare essentially a 9 year old car with a brand new one.

[Poverty]

Agreed different kettle of fish tony.

I know of two guys with 450hp 3.0 TT beemers, intake exhaust, map, wmi intercoolers.

[Sunglasses Ron]

Thats a pretty damning review for the RS3.  And considering its been well and truly mayched by a car for 10k less, is pretty embarrassing for the brand i think.

Almost like having a standard Mk6 Golf GTI match a Mk6 Golf R in every department.

Just like CH said, if the M135 is that good, what will the new M1 be like   surely it will annihilate the RS3.  And now that BMW have moved to turbo charged engines, its an even better tuning base.

We know a stage 2 RS3 is approx 430hp, so whats a stage 2 M135i?  

Basic bolt ons and mapping will give the RS3 some points back due to the 135i having a relatively small blower. DP, FMIC and mapping should see around 400 mark I would imagine.

From what I hear, the M135i is the same N55 unit that is in my 135i, just with the standard software tweaked a little. So don't expect MASSIVE gains from a stage 1 map. This is based on DD roller results though, so go on a happy dyno and you could see whatever figure you want..  
That's also based on the engine being identical to the N55 135i. I have yet to see whether or not that has been confirmed or not.

[Janner_Sy]

Let's just wait for the new RS3 before we compare essentially a 9 year old car with a brand new one.

Doesnt the RS£ use an extended TTRS chassis, and not an A3 chassis.  Pretty sure i read that somewhere

[sub39h]

The basic TT chassis is the same as the PQ35 A3/Mk5/Mk6/Leon et al chassis. It's still 9 years old!

[tony_danza]

You say that, but an R26.R has a classis like a MKIV Golf - Stone Age rear beam spec.

They still managed to make that go fast, with very little power too.

[Janner_Sy]

saying that, does it matter that the chassis is 9 years old.  Audi chose to use a 9 year old chassis for their RS3 rather than the a new one.  BMW obviously chose t use the latest designs instead.

So in 6 or 7 years, when the next generation A3 platform is getting old, and Audi release the next RS3, we'll be in the same boat again.

[rich83]

saying that, does it matter that the chassis is 9 years old.  Audi chose to use a 9 year old chassis for their RS3 rather than the a new one.  BMW obviously chose t use the latest designs instead.

So in 6 or 7 years, when the next generation A3 platform is getting old, and Audi release the next RS3, we'll be in the same boat again.

Well.. it matters if the 9 year old chassis isnt very good. 

[sub39h]

8P S3 was released 3MYs after launch. This gen sees the S3 released in the same MY. I can't imagine an RS3 will be more than a year or two away