revo stage 2+

[Mark_GTIV]

Well,

After the milly, Forge DV and the carbonio I was suffering boost spikes which in turn led to fuel cuts on Bluefin Stage 2. I had SC modify the boost request in the mapping to control spool-up and smooth the spikes which solved the fuel cut issue (which is basically what Revo are doing with the select settings some of you guys run).

Today, I was at AmD in essex with the car and did a bit of diagnosis, testing and replacing

To prepare Superchips supplied me with 3 maps to install :

My specially modified Stage 2 map :

I re-installed this map at 05:00 this morning after trying my old stage 1 map again over the weekend (stage 1 Bluefin on a hardware modified car does not work - especially if you've fitted a downpipe and race cat - the lack of a pre-cat really reduces backpressure and subsequently allows the car to develop more boost than the stock stage 1 bluefin maps knows what to do with.) and drove from my place in NL to Essex UK via the EuroTunnel. So the map was well adapted.

First run on their dyno resulted in the following peak measurements : 260.8 HP @ 5422 RPM and 281 lb/ft at 3487 RPM - pretty much what a stage 2 map with a milly should do on a normal GTI. But as you can see from the Dyno graph, the flat spots I was complaining about are quite clear.

After having a good diagnostics going over on the car, AmD checked the cam, and cam follower on my fuel pump, removed the fuel pump and fitted the uprated Autotech HPFP internals.

After testing the car, using the same BF map as the first run, they did a dyno run to show the effect that the uprated fuel pump alone had on the running of the car.

The resultant peak measurement was 267.5HP @ 5413 RPM and 304.9 lb/ft @ 3492 RPM - now the car could fuel for the boost being requested and as a result the ECU could adapt timing etc to be 'happier'.

Now the other software:  SC provided a fall back HPFP adaptation of the normal stage 2 map that would work if all went wrong and a specially developed more aggressive Stage 2 + map specifically for cars running with an uprated HPFP. We decided to install the stage 2 + map for the uprated HPFP. After adaptation, AmD did a dyno run :

This time with effect of the SC Stage 2+ map and the HPFP the resultant peak was : 274.2HP @ 5431 RPM and 310.8 lb/ft @ 3492 RPM.

The biggest difference though is the shape of the torque curve : it really filled out and was much flatter than before. Comparing what I had and the result shows a 40lb/ft of torque delta from around 3200rpm to around 4500 rpm.

The result : me a happy chappy, the car driving extremely well and with no hint of fuel cut or flat spot, just a solid linear surge of power.

BIG BIG thanks to Superchips, Michael Alvey-Anderson and AmD in Essex,  Sean and his team.  

Here are the graphs :





All these runs were done with the following fitted to my car :

Normal 2007 GTI 2.0. TFSI (BDA)

Milltek Hiflow Downpipe
Milltek HiFlow Cat
Milltek Resonated Exhaust
Carbonio intake
ITG Panel filter
Forge DV

and then for run 1 : Customised SC Bluefin stage 2 map
and then for run 2 : Customised SC Bluefin stage 2 map + Autotech uprated High Pressure Fuel Pump
and then ror run 3 : SC Bluefin Stage 2 (+) map + Autotech uprated High Pressure Fuel Pump

[tony_danza]

Certainly looks like they've got it cracked.

What does the fuel cut feel like?? I noticed at 120+ and foot on the floor at the ring last month there was a stuttering coming through the chassis.. but only when hot. I'm thinking either it was knocking the timing back or I was getting mild fuel cut?

[Mark_GTIV]

Certainly looks like they've got it cracked.

What does the fuel cut feel like?? I noticed at 120+ and foot on the floor at the ring last month there was a stuttering coming through the chassis.. but only when hot. I'm thinking either it was knocking the timing back or I was getting mild fuel cut?

It can feel like a flat spot where as revs rise the acceleration seems to back off a bit and then comes back a bit. Or if you've got a lot of load on the engine, then the ECU will protect itself by closing the throttle automatically even although you've got your foot on the accelerator (when it does that you will get a DTC code on the ECU).

What you are feeling as a stuttering sounds more like a coil-pack breaking down under load causing a slight misfire. (that should also log in Vagcom as a DTC).

[tony_danza]

Hmm - it only had 4 new coilpacks and plugs before I went away...

I need some Vadgecom action, no point guessing I suppose.

[iainalpine]

This is turning out to be real interesting thread here guys. 
Think i will be running the stage 2 for a while and save some cash for the FMIC. the twin cooler looks good, would you guys say thats the best one to go for.

Iain

[bacillus]

This is turning out to be real interesting thread here guys. 
Think i will be running the stage 2 for a while and save some cash for the FMIC. the twin cooler looks good, would you guys say thats the best one to go for.

Iain

IMO the APR IC is better than the twintercooler setup although the twintercooler is easier to install.

[RedRobin]

the twin cooler looks good, would you guys say thats the best one to go for.

Iain

IMO the APR IC is better than the twintercooler setup although the twintercooler is easier to install.

....I'm not challenging or disputing whether the APR IC is better or not but am curious why you think so. Bigger side tanks? Better core system?

Do you think that the APR is a better setup than the S3+Forge Twintercooler together?

Cheers

[WhiteGTI]

I think on the whole APR stuff is overlooked by many to be honest....

I've had numerous comments from tuners saying that my APR tbe shows more torque than other exhaust systems.

A lot of VAG tuners regard the APR fuel pump as the best around.

Again, a lot of VAG tuners regard the APR intercooler as vastly superior to the others on the market.

This isn't my personal viewpoint, but just comments from industry professionals that I've picked up on along my long journey modifying my GTI.

 

[bacillus]

The larger core, good design cooling and the ability to cater for bigger turbos outputs without noticable heatsoak would be my response.

As for the APR vs S3+twintercooler, I don't really know as too few out there are using the S3+twintercooler setup and reporting back on their findings.

[RedRobin]

....

I think that the S3 IC is a cheaper and easier option to install by most accounts.

Forge and APR have a very unpleasant rivalry - Always slagging each other off unfortunately - It's all over the American forums and they are both forum sponsors too!!

[WhiteGTI]

Forge and APR have a very unpleasant rivalry - Always slagging each other off unfortunately - It's all over the American forums and they are both forum sponsors too!!

Oh, I didn't know about that!

[MAT ED30]

Forge and APR have a very unpleasant rivalry - Always slagging each other off unfortunately - It's all over the American forums and they are both forum sponsors too!!

Oh, I didn't know about that!

been like that for years   for me the s3+forge fmic looks a very nice setup and once this one is fitted to Tc car i am sure we will see what he thinks and as it just been on the rollers we can see what effect it has on the car.

[tony_danza]

Mine's in for it DSG investigations this morning and they told me they were doing a recall on it too for a fuel pressure sensor - so maybe I'm going to get lucky with that being my issue.

I/C I'm not sold on the Twintercooler set up for a K03 car personally, 2 reasons.

1. The splitting of the hoses between the 2 'coolers is inefficient and will lose boost IMO. Simple flow dynamics. The difference in temp/pressure between the 2 outcoming flows niggles me too.

2. The combined core is too big and will potentially cause lag in certain circumstances. From a stand it's ok, as the car isn't using all the boost it is making and can build pressure in the system.. going round a fast long bend holding say 5000rpm and then hitting the throttle, there could be a flat spot, again IMO

The APR one looks good, but it's hideously expensive. I'd be looking at the S3/THS, depending on what turbo you have.

EDITED so not to sound so arsy! ha ha

[WhiteGTI]

^^^ Yeah you're right, I forgot to say this in my post....the APR stuff is generally more expensive than other alternatives!

[MAT ED30]

have u ever seen the s3 ic and apr ic side by side its like apr just stamped there name on the s3 cooler