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Author Topic: Flashed by Camera when driving under limit?  (Read 3093 times)

Offline jonnym

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Re: Flashed by Camera when driving under limit?
« Reply #30 on: January 03, 2013, 10:20:26 pm »

CUT

CUT

CUT

What area was this?

The camera was in Derbyshire.

CUT

You'll be fine. Derbyshire police operate 10% +2 as general practice.

A good point mentioned by Chrisr763 is that at the speed you were talking about you'd probably get a speed awareness course. In fact, some areas you can go upto 43 and get a course. It is all providing you haven't been done with the last 3-ish years I think as its nationally done apart from one or two counties!
« Last Edit: January 03, 2013, 11:07:20 pm by jonnym »
@PSW - "Candy white ones are the nicest and fastest"

Offline cmdrfire

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Re: Flashed by Camera when driving under limit?
« Reply #31 on: January 04, 2013, 05:38:00 pm »

I meant under read. As in display a speed lower than the one you're travelling at. Mathematically this is as near as impossible for me to not believe that there is a law against it.

Your quote also makes no mention of this being governed by law. In fact your quote implies that it is not governed by law, and the Police have to take into account that a percentage will under read

I asked one of our HMI team about this after reading this thread. It is against the law (legislation) for a speedometer to underread. I can probably chase them down for the appropriate spec but seemed like too much effort for this forum :P

Apparently, what is normally done with analogue instrumentation is it is designed to overread by a few percents with a tolerance of much less than that. So even something on the far end of the bell will still be over-reading, but by less than the mean. This satisfies the -0% to +10% tolerance that is permissable.

With electronics any sensor that is beyond tolerance will fail its end of line test (and believe me, they test every unit... I have been to a Tier 1 factory where they are producing four million complex (electronics, buttons, and plastic encapsulation) components a year for one of the German OEMs, every single unit goes through an automated EoL test and has appropriate documentation produced to verify every step of manufacture including test. It's one of the more impressive things I've seen.). All of the needles in your car now are using stepper-motors anyway and they have a very tight tolerance in manufacture.

Offline andrewparker

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Re: Flashed by Camera when driving under limit?
« Reply #32 on: January 04, 2013, 05:58:16 pm »
:happy2:

Offline jonnym

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Re: Flashed by Camera when driving under limit?
« Reply #33 on: January 04, 2013, 06:23:32 pm »

I meant under read. As in display a speed lower than the one you're travelling at. Mathematically this is as near as impossible for me to not believe that there is a law against it.

Your quote also makes no mention of this being governed by law. In fact your quote implies that it is not governed by law, and the Police have to take into account that a percentage will under read

I asked one of our HMI team about this after reading this thread. It is against the law (legislation) for a speedometer to underread. I can probably chase them down for the appropriate spec but seemed like too much effort for this forum :P

Apparently, what is normally done with analogue instrumentation is it is designed to overread by a few percents with a tolerance of much less than that. So even something on the far end of the bell will still be over-reading, but by less than the mean. This satisfies the -0% to +10% tolerance that is permissable.

With electronics any sensor that is beyond tolerance will fail its end of line test (and believe me, they test every unit... I have been to a Tier 1 factory where they are producing four million complex (electronics, buttons, and plastic encapsulation) components a year for one of the German OEMs, every single unit goes through an automated EoL test and has appropriate documentation produced to verify every step of manufacture including test. It's one of the more impressive things I've seen.). All of the needles in your car now are using stepper-motors anyway and they have a very tight tolerance in manufacture.
It'll probably be under construction and use and/or covered by some EU regs.

Firstly, there is a pretty straight forward answer on Handsard although some feel it doesn't answer the question. It does however clarify a few points we've been discussing:
http://www.theyworkforyou.com/wrans/?id=2001-03-12a.59.3

Yep both UK and EU legislation mention this:

S35 - The Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations 1986 is the UK part but has been amended by EU regulations. The UK legislation isn't technical and merely states car have to have one but refers to the EU regs --->

Key part is in Council Directive 75/443/EEC

4.4. The speed indicated must never be less than the true speed.

Another EU rule - Regulation 39 ECE complements Council Directive 75/443/EEC:
"there shall be the following relationship between the speed displayed (V 1 ) and the true speed (V 2 )"
This equation is used to work it out if it passes apparently:
"0 ≤ (V 1 – V 2 ) ≤ 0,1 V 2 + 4 km/h"

Construction and Use Legislation section:
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1986/1078/regulation/35/made

Council Directive 75/443/EEC:
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=CELEX:31975L0443:EN:HTML

Reg 39 ECE:
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CDYQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Feur-lex.europa.eu%2FLexUriServ%2FLexUriServ.do%3Furi%3DOJ%3AL%3A2010%3A120%3A0040%3A0048%3AEN%3APDF&ei=Px_nUPon78vQBcz3gYgC&usg=AFQjCNFMWEnEN0aU6whVx0AEhnMj43h1vg&sig2=we-zP2mfe9sgRjlS4E1W6A&bvm=bv.1355534169,d.d2k&cad=rja
« Last Edit: January 04, 2013, 06:38:45 pm by jonnym »
@PSW - "Candy white ones are the nicest and fastest"

Offline Veee-dubber

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Re: Flashed by Camera when driving under limit?
« Reply #34 on: January 04, 2013, 06:52:31 pm »
Despite everyone going into technicalities of the law you mention that the camera had been lowered and men working on it....

Firstly if the camera has been moved even the slightest then it would be out of calibration.

Secondly if it had been lowered right the way to the floor it probably wouldnt have even got you in the picture...

Thirdly - Blatently the work men pratting around or testing it   :wink:

Wouldnt let it worry you mate, im sure should you get a ticket issued then you could dispute it no problems!