Customer Service, Relationships, and Expectations....

[no golf clubs at all]

Guys I take a less emotional and more process orientated view of customer service.

In the UK I believe we are still years behind the states. Companies including the above have still to work out the true correlation between customer satisfaction, loyalty and profits. 

Often it can be a simple matter of designing and continually reviewing Internal processes and procedures to ensure and assure the whole customer experience.

Our companies don't think customer, they might say they do but when a customer has a problem or needs information quick they often do not have the infrastructure set up to cope with it. If companies want to enter the mass Market they have to ensure they can cope with all that demands. Else sorry tales of being stranded in France reverberate around the web for years to come.   

.." if you can wow them with an unforgettable experience, you'll win unprecedented loyalty." check out management guru Tom Peters on the subject.

[RedRobin]

It is irrelevant if I take this post personally or not, I will deal with things how I see fit with the best interests of the site in mind only.

You are free, as any other member is, to post what you like on the site and as long as it falls within the site guidelines which you agreed to up on registering for an account.

....Thankyou, Steve - I take my hat off to how calm and objective you are regarding what you consider to be in the best interests of this site - You are very consistent in that. Some other site Admins/Moderators would have been more draconian.

It's inevitable, if we are human, that words can be taken personally whether intended or not. If you say you've lost respect for me (as you did) I have no choice but to take that personally. I always seek to diffuse any resulting friction (hence my last post addressed to you) but will always defend my beliefs/opinions. But I still strive to remain open to modifying them.

I can only say that what I write on this site is only intended to contribute, share and network, even if it is occasionally provocative to some others - The only way I can stop that is by either not posting much at all or by not being my true self. I see nothing wrong with provoking debate/discussion which sometimes inevitably include a conflict of views - It's how we learn (if we are prepared to modify our views). I drive a bright red car remember!

[Rushes off to read the site guidelines to see what I agreed to! If I can find them.]

[RedRobin]

If you take a customers money, you play by the customers rules.

Big boys rules.  Simple as.

Some companies would do well to realise that.

....Unfortunately that's often how things are - A potentially 'Us vs Them' attitude which is counter productive whichever party is wearing the boot.

I prefer to advocate an attitude which is more sympathetic by encouraging a working relationship which is sympathetic to the other. So that suppliers do their best to satisfy customers and customers do their best to understand the problems of suppliers.

Too many people start off with the attitude that they have sweated blood and tears for their money and that every supplier is a stealer. It's not relevant how someone acquires their money. In my past I've made thousands on just one phone call, hundreds gambling at The Playboy, and also worked nights at minimum wage - The degree of red carpet treatment I might get when I spend my money makes no difference.

Most companies do their utmost to satisfy their customers though some just pay lip service to it.

I don't advocate or support a hard-nosed, cold-hearted approach and think it's tragic that the Thatcher years promoted such attitudes (and I am a Tory at heart and have never voted Labour, or Liberal).

[neg]

You have to admit though - a degree of red carpet treatment when spending your hard earnt does go a long way in making that parting easier.  Also comes down to leaving your pride and joy with someone who you feel will look after it like you do and not someone who's just doing there 'job'.

[RedRobin]

Guys I take a less emotional and more process orientated view of customer service.

In the UK I believe we are still years behind the states. Companies including the above have still to work out the true correlation between customer satisfaction, loyalty and profits.  

Often it can be a simple matter of designing and continually reviewing Internal processes and procedures to ensure and assure the whole customer experience.

Our companies don't think customer, they might say they do but when a customer has a problem or needs information quick they often do not have the infrastructure set up to cope with it. If companies want to enter the mass Market they have to ensure they can cope with all that demands. Else sorry tales of being stranded in France reverberate around the web for years to come.    

.." if you can wow them with an unforgettable experience, you'll win unprecedented loyalty." check out management guru Tom Peters on the subject.

....Those companies across the pond in the good old U S of A who are good at customer service are exemplary and second to none. However, my experience is that they are not ALL like that at all. The good ones help the reputation of all though.

Yes, infrastructures do need setting up but they don't happen overnight.

All of us can learn by our mistakes (if we allow ourselves to). In fact, that's often how we learn and improve.

[CocoPops]

Shame I'm posting on my phone, could have said a lot in this thread.

I've not read the thread to which this is linked, but my gearbox one is closely linked I'm sure.

I've said before, but will say again. I do find RR's comments to be very opinionated and sometimes blinkered and I see the same sentiments here as well.

It's a shame, but I do read a number of comments now wondering what the personal gain of the poster is as the comments almost seem to be given oblivious to the fact there are issues.

We all have different expectations, but unless there are favours to be done, everything costs money and a service of reasonable quality is deserved.

I've said enough for now, I can only read a few words at a time in the "posting box" on the phone, so I hope it makes sense!

Lee

[markymark]

Lee, you above all people have the biggest axe to grind and im still amazed at your patience in all of this. If I were you I would have parked my motor up at VWR's door and jumped up and down until it was fixed.

[RedRobin]

You have to admit though - a degree of red carpet treatment when spending your hard earnt does go a long way in making that parting easier.  

Also comes down to leaving your pride and joy with someone who you feel will look after it like you do and not someone who's just doing there 'job'.

....Absolutely! We all love to be royally treated. But I don't have a problem parting with money when I like the results - That's what money is for (imo).

Leaving, and so trusting, my car with someone I know loves cars as much as I do is possibly more important than anything else. More important than the level of customer service, more important than how cheap it costs.

I trust all my regular suppliers (many more than just two unnamed companies ) to test drive or deliver my car for example.
 

[RedRobin]

Lee, you above all people have the biggest axe to grind and im still amazed at your patience in all of this. If I were you I would have parked my motor up at VWR's door and jumped up and down until it was fixed.

....That's as may be, but the intention of this topic I started was to discuss customer service generally and not stir up individual case issues with named references to particular companies which has been so extensively done elsewhere on this site already and tends to degenerate into too much friction and sparks. I hear the words "utter bollox!" resounding in the distance!

There's already a thread open on Lee's particular issue but I agree that he has exercised patience - Perhaps he believes it's the best way forward.

[QD MBE]

I have personal experience of some of the best tuning Companies standards, and all I can say is that they would not survive in the aviation world.  

one such company are improving their standards, and I take my hat off to them.

I currently have an issue, that should be sorted soon, which was the result (for whatever reason) of very poor workmanship, which subsequently caused damage to my car.

I have had fairly good dialogue with the said company, which interestingly has got much better of late, the reason behind that improvement - I have my thoughts, but that is where they will stay.

There is a lot of smoke and mirrors with some companies, all that you see is not quite what you see.  You pays your money and takes your choice, I have very high standards (TC be quiet!), and expect the same in return, wrong?  Not in my eyes, i paid hard earned for my car, and expect it to be cared for as I would care for it.

In short, whatever the company and its other activities, IF you venture into the mainstream customer marketplace, you need good customer service, or it will permanently damage your standing.

The Customer does, and always will come first, they pay the bills.  

[RedRobin]

Shame I'm posting on my phone, could have said a lot in this thread.

I've not read the thread to which this is linked, but my gearbox one is closely linked I'm sure.

I've said before, but will say again. I do find RR's comments to be very opinionated and sometimes blinkered and I see the same sentiments here as well.

It's a shame, but I do read a number of comments now wondering what the personal gain of the poster is as the comments almost seem to be given oblivious to the fact there are issues.

We all have different expectations, but unless there are favours to be done, everything costs money and a service of reasonable quality is deserved.

I've said enough for now, I can only read a few words at a time in the "posting box" on the phone, so I hope it makes sense!

Lee

....Yes, it all makes sense, Lee

Indeed we do all have differing expectations but we all wish for a service of reasonable quality, as you say.

This topic is NOT about yours or anyone else's individual issue - It's been prompted by known issues but is a general discussion (or intended to be!). Perhaps I should I add a huge heading in capital letters about this point!

You could call anyone opinionated who bothers to express their opinions strongly, and especially if you don't happen to agree. If you read my original post here (and I don't assume you either want to or have time to) I hope you will understand me better.

There are issues - Issues with my 'favourite' suppliers even! I don't know a single supplier which I can't criticise and point at issues.

Why do some people have to translate absolutely everything into terms of costing money. And, equally, why do some people think that nothing is done without a favour being expected. Hey! I'm the guy who gave Dave a free ride (except for food and 50% accommodation) to Nurburgring without expecting any return favours. It was my way of doing something for a guy who'd just done a hard tour of duty in a war zone. Don't worry, Dave, you're not my bitch! My attitude is that someone else may do me a favour in life sometime - Or not as the case may be.

Thanks for posting, Lee - Appreciated  

[prepree]

What a thread............. ok my 2ps worth.......

As some previous posts have stated I like them don’t contribute to the site on a level compared to Steve, RR, VC, Hurdy, TC etc (sorry if iv forgotten anyone obvious) purely as I don’t have the knowledge on tuning or the funds to be able to do them YET! However id say my knowledge has improved loads since I first joined and that is down to all of your posts, I for one enjoy readings RR reviews on products, I also think it’s a great thing for the forum to have a member who gets these “perks” so he can share with all  of us, which he does! I also think he’s quite fair when it comes to not slating any other vendor.

Maybe he is a little biased but if you had a good experience and a continued one of awesome products you may jump to there defense a bit. As long as he doesn’t slate other vendors products with out a true experience he’s only standing up for what he believes in.

The customer service OP is such an open ended discussion as peoples lives, demands, opinions are all different IMO. What i may deem acceptable maybe shocking or not acceptable in anothers eyes and vice versa.

Im quite a laid back guy, if I sent an email enquiring about a product it would be at the beginning of a thought/project so if it took 5 days to reply or even two weeks I would be ok with that as if I wanted an answer there and then I would have phoned them.
It’s a totally different matter though if there is a message saying we will reply with 48 hours, and they don’t for 2 weeks, that’s poor customer service. If I called and someone promised to call me back and didn’t, again this is poor customer service. They should also expect to loose custom and be slated because of this.

Companies struggle with growth and change, maybe this explains VWR, they should have waited until everything was set up before launching there product range.

As I said before though everyone’s expectations on time scales etc are going to be different, the end goal should be satisfaction whether you are spending £1 or £1,000,000.00

Just my 2ps worth

GROUP HUG 

[RedRobin]

What a thread............. ok my 2ps worth.......

As some previous posts have stated I like them don’t contribute to the site on a level compared to Steve, RR, VC, Hurdy, TC etc (sorry if iv forgotten anyone obvious) purely as I don’t have the knowledge on tuning or the funds to be able to do them YET! However id say my knowledge has improved loads since I first joined and that is down to all of your posts, I for one enjoy readings RR reviews on products, I also think it’s a great thing for the forum to have a member who gets these “perks” so he can share with all  of us, which he does! I also think he’s quite fair when it comes to not slating any other vendor.

Maybe he is a little biased but if you had a good experience and a continued one of awesome products you may jump to there defense a bit. As long as he doesn’t slate other vendors products with out a true experience he’s only standing up for what he believes in.

....THANK YOU!

Someone who understands me! Do you cook? I love pussy, will you marry me? Only joking! I do assure you!

The customer service OP is such an open ended discussion as peoples lives, demands, opinions are all different IMO. What i may deem acceptable maybe shocking or not acceptable in anothers eyes and vice versa.

Im quite a laid back guy, if I sent an email enquiring about a product it would be at the beginning of a thought/project so if it took 5 days to reply or even two weeks I would be ok with that as if I wanted an answer there and then I would have phoned them.
It’s a totally different matter though if there is a message saying we will reply with 48 hours, and they don’t for 2 weeks, that’s poor customer service. If I called and someone promised to call me back and didn’t, again this is poor customer service. They should also expect to loose custom and be slated because of this.

Companies struggle with growth and change, maybe this explains VWR, they should have waited until everything was set up before launching there product range.

As I said before though everyone’s expectations on time scales etc are going to be different, the end goal should be satisfaction whether you are spending £1 or £1,000,000.00

Just my 2ps worth

GROUP HUG 

....I'd say your 2p is worth quite a lot.

I've wanted to avoid mentioning VWR by name because when I do so I get accused of all sorts of things. However, just as an example - Yes, I agree that ideally they may have done better to have waited. BUT, this would have probably meant a riskier investment before getting a feel for the non-racing market. This applies to any supplier expanding or entering a new market in these difficult economic times. As Sam Roach, their MD, has posted here: They are very aware indeed of their shortcomings and trying their best to make improvements. I don't believe that such changes happen overnight and it's entirely up to others if they can be satisfied or not. All I know is, that I am very satisfied. And for the record, I recieve no personal discount nor have any vested interest - I just enthusiastically support other genuine enthusiasts, which they are.

My father used to tell me that I could only try my best, and that's what I see happening. I know that if I had been a more hard-nosed cold-hearted character in my working life, I would be far richer now. However, without going into personal stuff, I do assure everyone here that there are more important things in life than standards of customer service and money. No apologies if that sounds opinionated - It's simply my experience of life. Take it or leave it.

[tony_danza]

I'm a stubborn git, but I won't go so far as to cut my nose off to spite my face.

I've had rotten service from somewhere in the past: smashed windscreen, fitting of parts I'd not requested and then attempting to put me over a barrel to pay for them, knackered rear calipers from not using the right tool to wind them back... Mistakes and accidents happen, yes - but a "tough sh*t" or "prove it was us" attitude bitters the pill, even if I got them sorted in the end. And, sadly I could tell you a hundred other stories from people with similar experiences who'll never use them again either.

I don't name them on forums, because you don't burn your bridges. Money talks and if in the event of them having something I want a reasonable amount cheaper than anywhere else, I'll buy it - it cuts me up, and I avoid doing it at all costs, but I'm not stupid. However, a car of mine will never EVER go into their workshop again.

I'm not afraid to argue my point publically if I think I have been unfairly treated and it is in the interests of others to see how. I will not do it when it is unjustified to just get leverage by a forum jury - people have a perfectly good ability to ruin their own businesses and all comes out in time, they don't need a forum to do it for them. Facts rule - witch hunts don't.

Dealing with people is a simple 3 strikes and you're on my 'list' - 2 places very recently have failed to call me back, despite me chasing 3 times trying to give them my money. I always call, rather than email - that's a very flawed means of communication IMO, easily forgotten, impersonal and usually for no good reason gets people's backs up.

If you've got that much work on you can't cope with replying to people, employ more staff. If you can't be arsed replying to people, don't moan when you're going down the pan.

And finally going on to recommending people. I'll sing the praises of a company/product all day long - I will never defend them against somone else's complaint though. As soon as I see people taking a personal interest in something that has nothing to do with them directly, I get the impression (rightly or wrongly) that they have been 'bought off', and concequently they lose  credibility in my eyes in terms of being relied upon for an honest opinion.

[RedRobin]

And finally going on to recommending people. I'll sing the praises of a company/product all day long - I will never defend them against somone else's complaint though. As soon as I see people taking a personal interest in something that has nothing to do with them directly, I get the impression (rightly or wrongly) that they have been 'bought off', and concequently they lose  credibility in my eyes in terms of being relied upon for an honest opinion.

....Yes, I can see that some people might easily interpret some of my posts as defending a favourite supplier against someone else's complaint. In truth, rightly or wrongly, I only ever seek to bring balance to issues IF, and only IF, my own experience has been different and not doing so might result in unfair bias and unjustified damage to reputation.

I do assure you that no-one has bought me off but it's of course it's up to others how they decide to judge my credibility or my honesty.