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Author Topic: "Schroth Quickfit removable 4-point harness" By Tony Danza  (Read 44160 times)

Offline RedRobin

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Re: "Schroth Quickfit removable 4-point harness" By Tony Danza
« Reply #45 on: September 28, 2009, 02:36:15 pm »
....

I just updated my Greenlight insurance to cover the Schroth harness and OZ LeggyRita's and TyreSure monitor and none of these items are a problem. I think that the key to it is that these items are TUV approved. The broker I spoke to knew about these items - The average car insurance person on the end of a phone wouldn't know what the heck I was talking about but Greenlight are very familiar. He even suggested that my policy note could cover me swopping between my wheels whenever I wanted. All for the standard £25 policy update fee.


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Offline RedRobin

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Re: "Schroth Quickfit removable 4-point harness" By Tony Danza
« Reply #46 on: October 13, 2009, 11:15:00 am »
....

Having now used my Schroth Quickfit harness at The Ring and a trackday at Spa, I can report that it's extremely comfortable and you soon forget how nice and tightly strapped in you are.

It's a bit of an effort threading the bulky part through my Recaro slot so I've left mine installed in the car for the time being. It's easy and tidy to stow and so results in having a choice of seatbelt every time you get in the car.

TUV approved and a great product.


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Offline RedRobin

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Re: "Schroth Quickfit removable 4-point harness" By Tony Danza
« Reply #47 on: November 17, 2009, 08:50:43 am »
....

Posted by animal in another thread (was off-topic) : -


Not wanting to take this any further off topic, but that photo concerns me Robin - are those your seats?

Bucket seats such as those shown here are rarely strong enough to actually take harnesses through the cut-outs, they are purely cosmetic. It was the same story on the old RS Focus - people we putting harnesses through the seats, but the backs of the seat aren't designed to take the load from a harness and can buckle and distort in a heavy impact, offering little or no support and potentially fatal consquences as the seat collapses around you. Just thought I'd let you know in case you weren't already aware of the dangers. The seat backs are separate from the base and arent stiff enough, like proper one-piece bucket seats, to handle forces exerted on them.

I don't mean to preach, but it's quite a serious safety concern - particularly on a track. They look lovely though... I hope I can source some.


....I think this is a question of safety best answered by both Recaro and Schroth. I will attempt to get some info from them and post accordingly in due course.

Meanwhile, my tuppence-worth is that the Recaro's are probably (hopefully!) stronger than those in an old Ford RS Focus. But more importantly, do you know of any fatal or serious injury crashes where these Schroth Quikfit belts were installed? 

Also my Recaro versions don't fold forward very well, although they aren't a one-piece shell. There must be plenty of one-piece shell bucket seats on the market which are neither TUV approved nor of a material which won't shatter/break under severe duress, but I haven't researched this point.

Also, the Schroth literature accompanying their Quikfit harness makes a big point of where the rear straps should and shouldn't be anchored and surely this is with seatbelt safety uppermost in their mind.



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Offline tony_danza

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Re: "Schroth Quickfit removable 4-point harness" By Tony Danza
« Reply #48 on: November 17, 2009, 10:52:38 am »
Hmm.. an interesting point and one that certainly can't be dismissed given the seriousness. I'm in no way qualified to give an answer, but here's my views.

I've know that placing the mountings at the wrong angle can break a seat, and your back.... no matter if it is a 1 piece or whatever. Their placement is ABSOLUTELY key.

I can only place faith in the TUV approval and the fact the mountings are well within the correct angle range. I can also only place faith in Recaro not making a seat with harness guides that isn't actually suitable to use harnesses with. It'd be lawsuit city.

IIRC the MKI RS Focus had Sparco seats? not exactly a make with no provenance - did any Sparco seats in an RSF actually fail? I'd be very interested in seeing one. Were people mounting them correctly?

The new EVO has OEM provision for harnesses to be used with their OEM 2 piece seats, the mountings are hidden under flaps in the rear shelf. Surely these would have been type and safety approved if the manufacturer is putting these in as standard?


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Re: "Schroth Quickfit removable 4-point harness" By Tony Danza
« Reply #49 on: November 17, 2009, 11:17:25 am »
^^^^
Whether you are 'qualified' or not Mike, your views on this make a great deal of sense to me - All very good points. TUV are pretty strict AFAIK.

It may take some time for me to get Recaro and Schroth replies. No wonder I don't have time to work!



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Offline MAT ED30

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Re: "Schroth Quickfit removable 4-point harness" By Tony Danza
« Reply #50 on: November 17, 2009, 11:23:39 am »
i dont think your seats will have been tested with harness as they are a design thing and i would think the belts are tuv approved but maybe not for your seats

Mods yes but way too many to stick in this little box

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Re: "Schroth Quickfit removable 4-point harness" By Tony Danza
« Reply #51 on: November 17, 2009, 11:34:39 am »
I am trying to imagine a type of crash were the unfortunate person sitting in the seat somehow got thrown forward with such force that the seat snapped. The whole idea of the harness is to keep you rooted to the seat.
I think if you managed to crash with such force as to do this then your neck would snap before the seat.  :sick:

Offline tony_danza

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Re: "Schroth Quickfit removable 4-point harness" By Tony Danza
« Reply #52 on: November 17, 2009, 11:38:46 am »
If the mounting points were at the wrong angle, say for example in the rear footwell (so like 70degrees off horizontal) - then it'd cause the seat to rotate as it'd pull down on the shoulders/harness guides of it and snap the back. You may also submarine out of it..
Sideways yo!

Offline animal

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Re: "Schroth Quickfit removable 4-point harness" By Tony Danza
« Reply #53 on: November 17, 2009, 11:40:19 am »
Robin, it's the harness its self that is TUV approved - that has no bearing what-so-ever on an individual installation or what seat it used with.

I would say that an Evo is far more likely to be set up for use with harnesses than a Golf GTi considering the market they are pitched at and the provsion of anchor points supports this. I've been trying to find info on the RS seats without success but they are very similar is design to the GTi seats, although as Robin points out - his GTi seats don't tilt forward like the RS ones do (as its a 3dr body shell). I wouldn't be at all suprised if the cut outs were just cosmetic though..

We can speculate until the cows come home - I agree we need solid facts to back this up. Sorry to open a can worms! But it is fairly well known in RS owner-circles that it's not considered safe as the seat cut-outs are more for aethetics than actual use. Perhaps our resident racing driver might be able to shed some light on this?
Only 250.1bhp - but with that noise, who cares?

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Re: "Schroth Quickfit removable 4-point harness" By Tony Danza
« Reply #54 on: November 17, 2009, 11:44:07 am »
If the mounting points were at the wrong angle, say for example in the rear footwell (so like 70degrees off horizontal) - then it'd cause the seat to rotate as it'd pull down on the shoulders/harness guides of it and snap the back. You may also submarine out of it..

This is it... the concern with the RS seats was not that the two parts might seperate but the tendancy to twist because of the inherent weakness in the two part contruction. You need the seat to be as rigid as possible to handle the forces exerted on it. Everyone always assumes impact forces are linear where they very rarely are. People also seriously underestimate the forces involved in vehicles impacts, even at low speed.
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Offline tony_danza

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Re: "Schroth Quickfit removable 4-point harness" By Tony Danza
« Reply #55 on: November 17, 2009, 11:54:15 am »
The TUV approval on these harnesses is on a per-car basis, i.e. there is a specific model of harness particular to each vehicle - so it can only be assumed they have been designed in conjunction with each other.

They're not "universal" in a traditional 3/4/6 point off the shelf sense.
Sideways yo!

Offline MAT ED30

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Re: "Schroth Quickfit removable 4-point harness" By Tony Danza
« Reply #56 on: November 17, 2009, 11:56:12 am »
Bin em its not worth the risk i have seen so many smashed cars in the past as i had to go around all the bodyshops for my work and u would be shocked to see what happens to a seat on impact  :sick:. I have seen done up chav cars with this type of system fitted and the seats have twisted and snapped due to the force  :sad1: the holes in your seats are for design pure and simple

Mods yes but way too many to stick in this little box

Offline tony_danza

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Re: "Schroth Quickfit removable 4-point harness" By Tony Danza
« Reply #57 on: November 17, 2009, 12:02:39 pm »
Mat, I totally get your point - it can't be assumed that because you have harness guides, you have a seat that can be used with harnesses... but it doesn't completely rule them all out as unsafe.

The EVO having 2 piece seats and OEM harness mountings (I'm 99% sure you can buy harnesses for the car direct from Mitsu?) proves that having the correct seat and mounting angles is safe. This is what is key here.

The TUV approval for the MK5 specific harness may have been based on the OEM seat, rather than the optional Recaro - Robin needs to check this.
« Last Edit: November 17, 2009, 12:06:30 pm by tony_danza »
Sideways yo!

Offline MAT ED30

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Re: "Schroth Quickfit removable 4-point harness" By Tony Danza
« Reply #58 on: November 17, 2009, 12:03:49 pm »
just been looking at the design of these and the only way u will ever know is if u crash and thats not what u want  :sad1: but they do look very good and the design looks like it should works fine but as i say who knows. I would defo use them on a track day but not on the road  :smiley:

Mods yes but way too many to stick in this little box

Offline MAT ED30

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Re: "Schroth Quickfit removable 4-point harness" By Tony Danza
« Reply #59 on: November 17, 2009, 12:07:03 pm »
Maybe jonny knows people in his job that would be able to shed some light on this type of system for road/track  :confused: might be good to ask him

Mods yes but way too many to stick in this little box