forge twintake air intake available end Aug 09

[KRL]

Hi Steve;

Thanks for the mail; I’ll keep it short and straight to the point as i've got work coming out of me ears!

Scaling the maf to a larger size is a pointless task and would require tuning to suit, the stock maf housing is perfectly suitable for almost any given application unless you're going for a massive turbo setup (GT35+) and in which case you may as well run without a maf..

Hope this helps guys!

Thanks Carl,

I have heard of cases in America where running an intake with a larger MAF diameter is causing performance problems on both Revo and APR SW running K03 and K04 turbos although I have not heard of any cases yet in the UK. 

If you look at  the fuel trims with the Long Term trim (VCDS block 31 or 32) being the most important.  A highly positive fuel trim might show deviations from what the ECU is expecting to see and from my knowledge  a simple increase in LTFT should be considered an increase in air flow.  If it actually zeros down after a few miles when the ECU has had a chance to adapt to the new intake it should not cause any problems.  A constant LTFT that just refuses to zero possibley means there is a problem.

[KRL]

which has to be a defined diameter to give accurate readings: 67mm

With aftermaket intakes this 67mm internal diameter is a best guesstimate as these intakes all come with circular cross sectional  piping whereas the oem air box has the maf sited where the cross section is not circular but ellipitical. 

Which is why I asked if the ITG was oval shaped 

No, as far as I am aware its circular tubing, but the diameter of the pipework chosen was based around the consideration of MAF requirement and not around restriction of pipework. I would imagine a calculation has been done to evaluate the internal area of the oval pipework, and then this has been replicated. I can speak to Andy Jackson at some point to ask the question, but the reason for the late reply is I'm currently overseas on annual leave, so access to t'internet for the next couple of weeks will be sporadic.

Would you be able to have a look at your long term fuel trims after you have done a few miles?  AFAIK the ITG is the only full intake system I know which conforms to the OEM MAF diameter but I would like to now if the MAF housing not being oval has any ramifications.

The only intake which uses an oval MAF housing is the Carbonio but this is because it uses the OEM engine cover and MAF housing.

[Poverty]

Seeing as this ITG is being developed in conjunction with revo, why not have a bigger MAF pipe diameter and just adjust the settings for it in the ecu?

[RedRobin]

Seeing as this ITG is being developed in conjunction with revo, why not have a bigger MAF pipe diameter and just adjust the settings for it in the ecu?

....Yes, but the new ITG intake needs to be available for cars with other tuner's remaps as well. Otherwise ITG's sales will be somewhat restricted.



[The subject of ITG's intake seems to have hijacked the discussion of Forge's]

[KRL]

True lol, sorry probably my fault.

[RedRobin]

True lol, sorry probably my fault.

....No, don't get me wrong - Personally I quite welcome it!

I'm interested in both intakes (and others) and the discussion has thrown up some very interesting info which helps all our choices.

Keep it coming!

[bacillus]

A constant LTFT that just refuses to zero possibley means there is a problem

Unless you have just cleared the ecu of faults (even if there aren't any), you will find in most cases that neither of the fuel trim values are zero.

Ross Tech suggests a +/-10% deviation is acceptable though I think +/-5% is a better value.

[KRL]

A constant LTFT that just refuses to zero possibley means there is a problem

Unless you have just cleared the ecu of faults (even if there aren't any), you will find in most cases that neither of the fuel trim values are zero.

Ross Tech suggests a +/-10% deviation is acceptable though I think +/-5% is a better value.

Yes thats correct, prehaps I did not explain myself very clearly.  Ideally the LTFT needs to stabalise at a value and the closer to zero the better.  Even on completely stock cars you will not see a value of zero.  If your LTFT is constantly climbing or falling it will eventually hit an upper limit of 25% or lower limit of -25% which causes a fault code and CEL.

So if we have a look at the LTFTs of people who already have various intakes installed we should get a decent idea of how the ECU is coping with the different sized MAF housings 

[bacillus]

This is why I asked jonnyc to check his values for me seeing that he has the twintake.
Unfortunately he's yet not gotten back to me on this... 

[warren_cox]

Would you be able to have a look at your long term fuel trims after you have done a few miles?  AFAIK the ITG is the only full intake system I know which conforms to the OEM MAF diameter but I would like to now if the MAF housing not being oval has any ramifications.

The only intake which uses an oval MAF housing is the Carbonio but this is because it uses the OEM engine cover and MAF housing.

I ran the Carbonia pre-ITG, and whilst it ran OK in stage 1 spec, it just couldn't successfully deliver air supply at over 300bhp.

I don't have VAGCOM, so I will need to hook up with someone in the West Berkshire / South Oxfordshire area once I get back from holiday. I've only just got here o wont be back in the UK for a while. Apologies.

[Poverty]

Seeing as this ITG is being developed in conjunction with revo, why not have a bigger MAF pipe diameter and just adjust the settings for it in the ecu?

....Yes, but the new ITG intake needs to be available for cars with other tuner's remaps as well. Otherwise ITG's sales will be somewhat restricted.



[The subject of ITG's intake seems to have hijacked the discussion of Forge's]

I was thinking that was the most logical answer, wonder if though ITG would ever make one specifically to suit the revo software or vice versa though. All that lovely big piping only to get quite a size reduction in diameter because of the maf seems wasteful to me.

[QD MBE]

Seeing as this ITG is being developed in conjunction with revo, why not have a bigger MAF pipe diameter and just adjust the settings for it in the ecu?

....Yes, but the new ITG intake needs to be available for cars with other tuner's remaps as well. Otherwise ITG's sales will be somewhat restricted.



[The subject of ITG's intake seems to have hijacked the discussion of Forge's]

I was thinking that was the most logical answer, wonder if though ITG would ever make one specifically to suit the revo software or vice versa though. All that lovely big piping only to get quite a size reduction in diameter because of the maf seems wasteful to me.

A rather nice Divergent Duct.  Therefore the pressure will Decrease, Velocity of the airflow will increase, and airflow temp will also decrease. 

[jonnyc]

Seeing as this ITG is being developed in conjunction with revo, why not have a bigger MAF pipe diameter and just adjust the settings for it in the ecu?

....Yes, but the new ITG intake needs to be available for cars with other tuner's remaps as well. Otherwise ITG's sales will be somewhat restricted.



[The subject of ITG's intake seems to have hijacked the discussion of Forge's]

I was thinking that was the most logical answer, wonder if though ITG would ever make one specifically to suit the revo software or vice versa though. All that lovely big piping only to get quite a size reduction in diameter because of the maf seems wasteful to me.

You obviously havn't measured the inlet diameter of the K04 then if you think the MAF pipe is a restriction..

[Poverty]

Seeing as this ITG is being developed in conjunction with revo, why not have a bigger MAF pipe diameter and just adjust the settings for it in the ecu?

....Yes, but the new ITG intake needs to be available for cars with other tuner's remaps as well. Otherwise ITG's sales will be somewhat restricted.



[The subject of ITG's intake seems to have hijacked the discussion of Forge's]

I was thinking that was the most logical answer, wonder if though ITG would ever make one specifically to suit the revo software or vice versa though. All that lovely big piping only to get quite a size reduction in diameter because of the maf seems wasteful to me.

You obviously havn't measured the inlet diameter of the K04 then if you think the MAF pipe is a restriction..

I drive  my car not take it apart 

[Poverty]

Seeing as this ITG is being developed in conjunction with revo, why not have a bigger MAF pipe diameter and just adjust the settings for it in the ecu?

....Yes, but the new ITG intake needs to be available for cars with other tuner's remaps as well. Otherwise ITG's sales will be somewhat restricted.



[The subject of ITG's intake seems to have hijacked the discussion of Forge's]

I was thinking that was the most logical answer, wonder if though ITG would ever make one specifically to suit the revo software or vice versa though. All that lovely big piping only to get quite a size reduction in diameter because of the maf seems wasteful to me.

A rather nice Divergent Duct.  Therefore the pressure will Decrease, Velocity of the airflow will increase, and airflow temp will also decrease. 

I see so something useful does come of it.